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Protecting assets.

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northumbrian_k

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Mar 2, 2017
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Newcastle
Homes that don't accept LA funded residents (or do so with caveats) may be at the higher end of charging so money may run away even more quickly. At the point that funds fall below the threshold for LA funding that would mean the resident having to move to somewhere that would accept the LA rate. It may be alright (and more equitable) to choose a 'private only' care home but only if one is willing to pay more and there is no possibility of falling below the threshold.

The more expensive homes that I looked at would allow residents once they became funded by the LA but only if a 3rd party would pay a top up.
 

Sirena

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Feb 27, 2018
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maybe my view is skew-whiff in another direction
I have no children and no intention of leaving anything to estranged family ... anything I leave will go to charities
I count myself blessed that mum and dad saved so dad was able to fund himself, and he left me a generous amount when he died
I will be happy to pay for my own care should I need it, and grateful that if my money runs out we live in a state which will fund our care

I am mindful that 'the state'/ the government/the LA/ Social Services (call it what you will) is not some money magician .... it is, in fact, all of those who pay taxes/contributions, so those who are working or have worked .... therefore anyone saying they will give their own assets away so the 'state' can pay for their care is expecting everyone else to pay for them .... which doesn't seem right/fair to me
I completely agree. My mother has self-funded her care for the past five years and by the time she dies the money will have run out, I won't inherit anything. But I much prefer that situation to the alternative of sorting out care via SS, which would have been inadequate and provided 'too late'. Self funding meant I did not have to struggle/fight for care, I could employ a care agency and then at the appropriate time choose a care home for her.

I couldn't really put a price on that. If/when I need care, I would much prefer to fund it myself than rely on SS.
 

ganymede

Registered User
Apr 28, 2021
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So true.

All my life, whenever I threw my hands up and declared, 'It's not fair!' my mother would always reply, 'No one ever said life is fair. Get used to it.'

Mum paid for her care because she had ample funds and that's fair enough. But it's not fair she paid so much more for her room than the LA were paying for the residents they funded. Mum paid tax and NI all her life (and she always worked apart from 5 years when my brother and I were very young.) So she paid for her own care, paid towards the care of other through taxes then got shafted again paying the higher fees at the care home. Should she have been made to pay again? No.

But maybe I should take the blame as I chose the CH. Back then I didn't have a clue about funding or how it worked. When I did discover the truth, the manager was quite open with me about how much more my mother was paying because the LA don't pay enough so they charged private residents more to make up the shortfall. This only happens in homes that take both private and LA funded residents. I should have chosen a fully private home for her. But how was I to know about this injustice? This is probably the one piece of advice I'd pass on to anyone comtemplating a self-funded move into care for their loved one.
@Jaded'n'faded this is a real insight. Thank you. We know we will be contemplating this fairly soon.

If the home you choose when self-funding doesn’t take LA funded people, presumably that means our Mum would have to be moved OR continue to pay top-up contributions once she falls below the £23,500 threshold?
 

ganymede

Registered User
Apr 28, 2021
56
0
Homes that don't accept LA funded residents (or do so with caveats) may be at the higher end of charging so money may run away even more quickly. At the point that funds fall below the threshold for LA funding that would mean the resident having to move to somewhere that would accept the LA rate. It may be alright (and more equitable) to choose a 'private only' care home but only if one is willing to pay more and there is no possibility of falling below the threshold.

The more expensive homes that I looked at would allow residents once they became funded by the LA but only if a 3rd party would pay a top up.
Oops, sorry @northumbrian_k I didn’t read p4 before replying to Jaded ‘n’ faded above.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
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High Peak
@Jaded'n'faded this is a real insight. Thank you. We know we will be contemplating this fairly soon.

If the home you choose when self-funding doesn’t take LA funded people, presumably that means our Mum would have to be moved OR continue to pay top-up contributions once she falls below the £23,500 threshold?
Not necessarily. For one thing, if the person has been in the home for a considerable time, you can argue it wouldn't be in their best interests to move. Sometimes the LA are able to negotiate a (cheaper) rate with the care home that enables the person to stay. Obviously, if it's a really expensive place, they'd insist on a move I think.

Mum's place was mid-range in terms of cost. She received good care there but so did the lady in the room next door who was council funded and who mum was effectively subsidising.
 

nita

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Dec 30, 2011
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Essex
I think it's unfair to blame the council-funded residents. It's the government who are not paying the rate the care home is asking for. Have you ever wondered how much profit these care homes make? Where my mother was in respite briefly, the owner was driving a very expensive car. The trouble is quite often they don't plough the profits back into the running of the care home. Certainly the staff don't get the remuneration they deserve.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
1,953
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High Peak
I think it's unfair to blame the council-funded residents. It's the government who are not paying the rate the care home is asking for. Have you ever wondered how much profit these care homes make? Where my mother was in respite briefly, the owner was driving a very expensive car. The trouble is quite often they don't plough the profits back into the running of the care home. Certainly the staff don't get the remuneration they deserve.
I'm absolutely not blaming the council-funded residents. Not least because they presumably had little say over where they were placed anyway.

There are 2 issues with the system:1. The council rate is insufficient and needs to be more realistic. 2. Care homes are only concerned with profits. They like the income from the council block-booking beds, etc, and unfortunately, there is nothing to stop them charging more to private residents.

And yes - care workers are woefully underpaid.
 

Melles Belles

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Jul 4, 2017
773
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South east
I have heard that a director over a large well know chain earns over £900,000 pa and I doubt that includes pension contributions and other benefits.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,696
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North West
I am astonished at some of the responses on this thread, the original question was about protecting assets as I believe. The truth is that there is nothing in law to protect assets up to immediate ill-health, under such provision it would be seen and argued as deprivation of assets. The only way to protect ones assets is to sign them over at risk long before any ill-health becomes a reality. The risk is always of course that to sign over is to be expelled from your home or to face deprivation. But if that is a risk anyone is willing to take then be sure you do it sooner rather than later.

The more pressing matter is those who boast about self funding. I have no quarms with anyone who wishes to argue self funding of their care with dementia, but the reality is this -what happens when the money runs out? Many people live longer than their estate can provide for, so who picks up the tab at the end of the day? Who pays for the GP who cares for the self funder and who pays when they go to an ED?

Its not all about money, its also about a collective sharing, and that whether we like or not is what we do and that is how it should be
 
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