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Property disregard and deferment

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by jugglingmum, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,319
    Female
    Chester
    I know that a lot is regularly posted about these topics, but as my mum is fully self funding and house sold not followed in detail.

    Was away at the weekend with a group of friends and one was telling me about the progression of his mother's dementia. I was aware there were issues but haven't seen the friend so much as I dropped out of the canoe club with my mum's issues.

    Friend, R lives a few minutes from me, and has learning difficulties (oxygen deprived at birth as in those days no scans and didn't know there were twins). Due to significant support, mainly from parents R lives a relatively independent life, he has a job, drives a car etc and I'm told many at his level spend their lives in daycare (by the manager of a daycare for adults with learning difficulties).

    R is late 50s (I think - but maybe 60 - time goes on). Given that technically he doesn't live independently, will the house be disregarded? He was telling me he can't cook, his mum has got behind with paperwork so his nephew is sorting it out (R has a poor reading level).

    I do think R might be able to cook, and I will try to help him learn, in the youth hostel he took charge of my 10 year old who wanted to make his own sandwich (well not have mum help).R's mum I think could only manage the effort to get him so far to live independently.

    He wasn't sure who owns house, he thinks that maybe when his dad was alive it was owned equally by him and his parents (ie thirds). He doesn't know what happened to his dad's third, but family (twin brother, his children and his deceased sister's children)will try and support him. So even if no disregard, value of a third of house comes into play.

    (Mods should I have posted in the legal thread).

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,745
    Female
    London
    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/E...rmanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

    Read under 3 Property that is disregarded

    Basically, a relative whose main home this has been since before the person has gone to live in a care home, has to be under 18, over 60 or incapacitated for the property to be automatically disregarded. So find out his age and if not 60 yet, whether he is on any incapacity benefits as listed in the link. His learning disabilities certainly make him a vulnerable person.

    In addition to that, there is a discretionary disregard, where someone under 60 who has delivered substantial care, can apply for the property to be disregarded.

    Obviously, someone in his family ought to be able to tell him who the property actually belongs to with which percentage.
     
  3. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,776
    Salford
    Without knowing the exact circumstances the house will be disregarded if:
    "For the purposes of the disregard the meaning of ‘incapacitated’ is not closely defined. However, Annex B of the statutory guidance advises that it is reasonable to conclude that a relative is incapacitated if either of the following conditions apply:
    (a) they are receiving one (or more) of the following benefits: incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance, disability living allowance, personal independence payments, armed forces independence payments, attendance allowance, constant attendance allowance, or a similar benefit; or
    (b) they do not receive any disability related benefit but their degree of incapacity is equivalent to that required to qualify for such a benefit."
    So I guess if he's still living in the house with his parents and get's any of the listed benefits or could should he apply, then he can continue to live there.
    However, it depends what you mean by "lives a relatively independent life", if that's within the family home then I don't see a problem but if he lives elsewhere then it's a different matter.
    It's not relevant if he owns a share of the house or not, if he lives there and is a qualifying person then it's an automatic disregard.
    K
     
  4. garnuft

    garnuft Registered User

    Sep 7, 2012
    6,585
    #4 garnuft, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
    I think it depends very much on whether the person lives in the house, lives...not is there occasionally.

    Edited to add...his share of any proceeds will be protected but I don't think disregard would apply.



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  5. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,319
    Female
    Chester
    R does live in the house, he has never left home, no idea if he would be capable, BUT his parents certainly didn't think he would be. It is a bungalow they built (including R doing a big chunk of the work) when his father needed one.

    I have known him nearly 20 years, and within our circle we give him a lot of support to enable him to be part of us, he is very aware of his limitations as well so readily asks for help. the children don't notice his limitations and it can embarrass him when they ask him to do things like they would another adult, which he can't help them with - so he finds someone to help him do what they have asked (one of them asked him to read to them when they were about 4 - from a nursery book, he did but barely could - they didn't notice - and loved him for spending the time - it inspired him to go back to classes with his reading).

    I know little about benefits. I do know that he works full time so guess on an income basis wouldn't qualify. We have always hoped that one of his family would take him in or look after him, looks like they will try and keep him in his house. He won't be able to manage bills - suspect they are already doing the shopping.

    Nephew is dealing with financial side, so will try and get in touch with nephew. Sounds like she needs care now (she is wandering R had day off work and heard her at front door at 5am - he leaves for work at 4 normally) and they will delay to protect house.
     
  6. garnuft

    garnuft Registered User

    Sep 7, 2012
    6,585
    He lives at home still.
    Then I would say it depends upon what degree his learning difficulties have been 'recognised' by the system.




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  7. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,319
    Female
    Chester
    Thanks Gwen - hmmm - don't know - suspect his parents kept him out of system.

    Parents were told he would never walk, never talk, he went to a special boarding school aged 3(don't think inclusion in main stream is the be all and end all - his mum was always so grateful for this help). They pushed him and guided him.

    In my busy life I don't want to break and he does have a strong family so I will try and contact them. His mum used to contact me to sort things out for him. I want to give info to nephew and brother but will offer to show him how to cook. Don't know if he will manage it. But kids will enjoy seeing him come round.
     
  8. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,776
    Salford
    If he lives in the house and does or could qualify for one of the benefits I listed then it's an automatic disregard.
    The qualifying benefits are not means tested so whether he works or not doesn't matter. Does he or could he be entitled to the benefits is what counts, even if he doesn't claim them then Para B " they do not receive any disability related benefit but their degree of incapacity is equivalent to that required to qualify for such a benefit" would be the test.
    As Garnuft says "it depends upon what degree his learning difficulties have been 'recognised' by the system." or what could be proven by medical records.
    Frankly as it all seems to stem from an NHS "mess" up in the first place I might be tempted to remind people of that if that doesn't sound too callous.
    K
     
  9. garnuft

    garnuft Registered User

    Sep 7, 2012
    6,585
    Oh...I understand his parents point of view too.

    Even so, he can still be assessed as needing support and for the purposes of this discussion, the property could be disregarded.
    Supported living could be given to him...but he'll have to jump through the hoops first, God love him.

    Do let us know how he and his Mum get on, it's a subject close to my heart. x


    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
     
  10. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Just bear in mind the disregard will not even come into play if the Mother has savings higher than £23,250. If she has then by the time they run out he may well have reached 60 and the disregard will then kick in.:)

    Obviously if needed a disregard would be good for "R" but there are other considerations as well and I mean no disrespect at all.

    Will "R" be able to afford to live in the house on his own? If the LA are involved all the Mothers pensions/income will taken.

    If the Mother no longer has capacity whoever has PoA may decide that a disregard is not in her best interests especially if they do not like the LA suggested "within budget" home and a top up is needed. A disregarded property cannot have a Deferred Payment Agreement (there are discretions), so it can sometimes be better to agree to a % ownership valuation depending on the interest rates and charges, if any.


    I do hope everything works out OK.

    :)
     

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