power of attorney - problems

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by nemesisis, May 11, 2007.

  1. nemesisis

    nemesisis Registered User

    May 25, 2006
    100
    has anybody else experianced problems approching building societys with power of attorney after two visits one in dec and the other in march and also three phone calls I still have not received access to mums account and although she has plenty of funds ( the local council have made me responsible to pay her care fees) i am having to pay mums bills myself !
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Is the power of attorney registered? They must have given you some idea what the problem is: have they not filled out the correct form, do they the the right ID etc? Have they lost the forms?

    Jennifer
     
  3. nemesisis

    nemesisis Registered User

    May 25, 2006
    100
    #3 nemesisis, May 11, 2007
    Last edited: May 11, 2007
    power of attorney is registered with solicitorers and the last person I was in contact with at the allianced and leicester was very kind she asked me to come in again which was the 2nd visit (13 april) but still nothing has happend (is it just me)
     
  4. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,544
    Kent
    Can`t you ask the solicitor why it isn`t being accepted.
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    #5 jenniferpa, May 11, 2007
    Last edited: May 11, 2007
    When I said registered I meant with the court of protection. I'm not certain what registering it with the solicitor means in this context. Oh, we are talking about an enduring power of attorney, yes? And you are in England (not scotland)? I'm afraid that some building societies (and banks) are less than competent than they should be with this. Can you not call this helpful woman at the BS and ask her what has happened?

    As a matter of interest did you fill out this form http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/savings/attorney.pdf?

    Or did you follow these steps (from http://www.alliance-leicester.co.im/assets/pdf/Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf)
    First ensure that you have a valid Power of Attorney. The main types of Power of Attorney we can accept are:
    • General Powers of Attorney drawn up under the laws of the Isle of Man, in the correct legal form; and
    • General Powers of Attorney drawn up under the laws of England and Wales, including powers drawn up in the prescribed form under
    the Enduring Powers of Attorney Act 1985.
    Please telephone if you are unsure if your Power of Attorney will be acceptable. You also need to:
    • either complete a Change of Account Information form and post it to us, or write to us clearly setting out the details of the change; and
    • provide the original or a certified copy of the Power of Attorney, together with the details of any Solicitors or Advocates who have drawn
    up your Power of Attorney; and
    • provide identification documents as evidence of the identity of the Attorney, in line with our Guidance Note on Customer Identification
    (one document from List A and one from List B).
     
  6. nemesisis

    nemesisis Registered User

    May 25, 2006
    100
    #6 nemesisis, May 11, 2007
    Last edited: May 11, 2007
    is that your advice then go back to the building society again? well i will give it a go
     
  7. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    Assuming that you are speaking of:

    Enduring Power of Attorney

    and

    You're in England


    The Power of Attorney must be registered with the Court Of Protection to become "active". Merely completing the forms at a solicitor and having the solicitor keeping them doesn't mean it's "registered" in the sense you appear to thinking of.

    AFAIK, only the Attorney can register the power with the Court, although they could I suppose ask a solicitor to do the needed paperwork and ensure all the bits had been done. But that is not a requirement - you can do it all yourself.
     
  8. Natashalou

    Natashalou Registered User

    Mar 22, 2007
    426
    london
    slow

    for me the process was trouble free but very slow, it took about 4 weeks and two visits from me for the bank to act then another couple of weeks for cheque book etc to arrive.
    But the really bad news is my mothers bank has now been transferred/takenover by another one, and somehow all the POA attorney details have been "lost!" (yes, really) .
    All the new information was sent to her previous address. Luckily the person there was honest, and fowarded it all to me.
    I spent about an hour on the phone to some idiots in a call centre who didnt even know what a POA is let alone what to do with it.
    I was promised a call back and im still waiting. I am just hoping the recent care home cheque is honoured!
     
  9. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I would write a VERY STRONG letter direct to Complaints Manager at Head Office of Alliance and Leicester

    Mind you I suspect that because you have not got registered POA from Court of Protection they will not give you full access

    You do need to send off that POA to Court of Protection with relevant cheque £120 i think plus notify any interested relatives as required by the law

    see Guardianship website and EPOA details on there

    There was no need to involve a solicitor ........do check first whether the solicitor has ACTUALLY registered the POA

    I found Barclays , Nationwide, Abbey, to be very good
    National Savings were excellent all dealt with things either immediately or in 10 days and that was even before i had registered it with Court of Protection
     
  10. sophie123

    sophie123 Registered User

    Feb 14, 2007
    19
    Berkshire
    Just from my experience, you have to register your POA/receivership with the bank before you can do anything with their account - I believe this is your responsibility, not your solicitors or courts. I just made an appointment to see an advisor and she went through the forms with me.

    This just involves filling out a form and showing ID and documents proving your POA - if you have done this, there is no reason why they shouldn't let you have access to the funds.

    Soph x
     
  11. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    O.K. let's go through this again.

    There are 2 basic "types" (for want of a better word) of EPA.
    1) it can be used immediately it has been signed, even if the person hasn't lost capacity or 2) it only comes to to effect when the person has lost capacity. With the former you may (depending on the financial institution) not need to register it with the court of protection before use. I say may, because in theory this format acts almost as a regular power of attorney, until the person loses capacity, and some banks etc may not allow the use of a power of attorney, but A & L isn't one. The latter, on the other hand, must be registered with the COP before it can be used, because it can only be used when the person making it has lost capacity. It all depends on the wording of the EPA. If you have one of the former, or one of the latter and it had been registered with the COP, you can then start the process of registering it with the appropriate bank.

    For an exhaustive discussion of this see this thread http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/TalkingPoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=6242
     
  12. #12 mickyinlondon, May 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2007
    Good Afternoon Everyone.

    Funny that this subject should come up today.

    I had a letter this morning from the Glasgow Office of *** Finance; and from their department called; Customer Care Services.

    They insist that my wife can no longer with-draw her savings as she has dementia; and they have placed in their own words a ban on her; they state; A No Operations; has been placed on her account; this means nothing can now be withdrawn by her; I pointed out to them in a letter [Now in the post by special delivery] that they are not doctors, and are in no position to pass medical opinions or judgements on her ability or sanity.

    As luck has it; I have an Admiral Nurse visiting me on Monday; so I will now have to take up this power of attorney with him or her.

    I point out that I have spoken and written to **** Finance Services in Glasgow many times; and each time they move the goal posts to suit themselves.

    I will end up suing them if nothing changes.

    But if they want POA; then I will have to get POA; but why should my wife feel like a freak just because she has dementia; she walks, talks, thinks, reads, and by and large still appears normal to all around her; she chats and even laughs and cries; but because she has dementia; they say she is not competent to have her own savings back; without me now getting POA; they keep all her savings for themselves.

    Is this how ****'s got so large; by robbing the old and aged; makes you think doesn't it; remember ********; she was a ***heiress; and sold three grave yards that belonged to the people of Westminster; and she sold them for 15 pence the three; houses and vast areas of land included; that worked out at 5 pence each grave yard; about the same price ****used to sell plastic carrier bags for.

    It’s also funny how they have no objections to investors that have dementia; investing in them without POA; but you just try getting your money back when you want it.

    Well its early days for me and my wife; but I will take on ****; and anyone else that tries to rob us in anyway.

    I think you all should do the same; and remember this; with words you can make the difference to the way they treat us all; they are not invincible; and in court; they can easily be beaten; with Justice by the law.

    If Rita and I have a problem with **** it’s this; does English Law mean anything in Scotland; where **** placed their Customer Services and Finance Offices; is Scotland like an Off-shore company that **** use to defraud or obstruct savers from getting their money back; Just a Thought on my part; but many a true word spoken in jest……….Micky.



    Sorry Micky I have edited this post due to the repeated naming of a company and reference to an individual. Also if you are to take them on would not like your case to be prejudiced by having been discussed on here.
     
  13. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    EPA and POA in the UK is different from Scotland

    But its a poor bank or building society in the UK who refuses to recognise an EPA registered or unregistered and they will be in trouble with the Financial ombudsman if they cause needless delay and problems

    Most of the time its because the staff have not been trained

    Go to another branch or DEMAND the manager
     
  14. Sorry Micky I have edited this post due to the repeated naming of a company and reference to an individual. Also if you are to take them on would not like your case to be prejudiced by having been discussed on here.

    Hi Amy.

    The edit is ok with me; you have to do what you think is correct; you know me; I just write it how it is; but the edits are truth.

    I have just sent an e-mail to their Managing Director; I won't say his name; as he is a Lord...:) :) :)

    Lord help us all....:) :) Micky.
     
  15. Nell

    Nell Registered User

    Aug 9, 2005
    1,170
    Australia
     
  16. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi

    Until now I have had no problem with H___. Re POA and parents bank accounts.
    I took the original registered document to my local branch where they copied it and sent it to head office and it was duly noted on the system.
    However, since Mum and Dad have very recently gone into care and I was previously planning finacially for this, I wrote asking to encash a Guaranteed Investment Bond and a High Income Trust, which they had invested in a number of years ago.
    Guaranteed investment bond sent a cheque no problem. I am still waiting for the cheque from the other fund, despite numerous phone calls. First excuse was although they had POA logged on the system, they needed the registration with the court of protection. (which was all together with POA, local branch had forwarded) Keeping my cool I again took original POAs into branch where they again copied them and forwarded it to relevant dept. Still no cheque. Another phone call. I was told that the branch hadn't certified the copy correctly (not my problem, the bank should sort it) and they would need a certified copy of my passport. Fair enough, but no one had asked for it. I was asked if I would like a letter informing me of all of the above!!! It would be good to be keep in the loop!

    Just to remind you. this all happened with the same bank, all be it, different departments. It is so frustrating and beggers belief.
    More training in POAs of all staff in all finacial institutions is urgently required.

    Alfjess
     
  17. Just to remind you. this all happened with the same bank, all be it, different departments. It is so frustrating and beggers belief.
    More training in POAs of all staff in all finacial institutions is urgently required.

    Good Morning Alfie.

    If all the staff were trained to do their jobs properly; then the companies would have to give you back your money by law; which is not what they want to do; so don’t expect miracles of common sense to emerge from any company that has your money; that is how they make more money; and keep yours as well…Micky.
     
  18. bernie

    bernie Registered User

    Jul 28, 2005
    52
    south london
    If it is a POA or an unregistered EPA then the bank would be within there rights to refuse to be refuse to act upon document should they feel that the customer is mentally incapacitated.

    A POA would become invalid should the patient become mentally incapacitated. The bank has to be sure that it is acting in the patients best interests.

    Once the EPA has been registered all transactions are overviewed and the immediate relatives are made aware of the situation.

    Whilst I am sure that you would not misappropriate funds there is no independant overview. The bank has to look after its/its customer's interests.
     
  19. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Bernie

    Thanks for info.
    It is a registered EPA.
    What confuses me is that different departments of the same bank, have different rules, or say they have different rules. Is it all in the interpretation of the empoyee who is handling things?
    This bank already have certified copies of my passport, which I had taken to the branch, with EPA. and the lack of cummunication is abysmal.

    I am also a client, but maybe not or much longer.

    Hi Mickey
    You could be right. Banks and B.S are quick to take your money, but we have a hard job trying to get it back again

    Alfjess
     
  20. #20 mickyinlondon, May 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2007
    Good Morning Bernie.

    I read your post as saying, that bank’s and other companies like insurance and building societies would be within their rights to refuse to act upon those documents; if someone employed there should feel that the customer is mentally incapacitated?

    By what measure are any businessmen equipped with medical knowledge as to what is mental incapacity?

    Then I wonder why the demand, that people get a POA, to handle the persons affairs for them; if those same businessmen then declare the POA invalid, if the said person becomes incapacitated in their opinion?

    And I also wonder why those same businessmen, feel they alone, are acting in the patient or customers best interests?

    I personally think they are always acting in their own interests; first and foremost; especially if they alone end up with the person’s wealth in their own pockets; and they are not even related to the said patient or customer?

    As to looking over customers interests; Well when the customer is not ill or incapacitated that is of course what their role is all about; but when the customer is for any reason unable to function normally anymore; then the next of kin should morally and legally, look after the patient or customers interests; not the bank or company; who have no tie to the patient or customer; other than holding their money.

    I am not a lawyer; and as Doctor Johnson once said; the Law is an Ass; and right is right to my ordinary way of thinking; and this is just my humble opinion……Micky
     

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