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POA - What happens now?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Kingfisher1, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    I have just received a letter from the OPG saying that they have now registered the POA for my elderly BIL. I thought it was going to be some sort of 'certificate' but actually they have just returned the original paperwork I filled out and had witnessed etc, all dog eared and tattered, but with the official OPG stamp in each page. Is this correct?

    What should be my next action, do i contact all his banks and building societies to let them know I have the POA? Will I be able to access his accounts online to pay bills etc? He is housebound and unable to go to the PO to collect his pension, but I have my own card for that now and have been getting money out for food, bills and the suchlike but I would like to set up direct debits and perhaps have a debit card so that I can use it to order his shopping online. Thank you.
     
  2. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,902
    Female
    Scotland
    We had POA registered some years ago for both of us. John has now been declared as lacking capacity so I have taken his POA out of our safe box ready for use but apart from the SW doing an assessment no one has asked for it. I don't intend going around offering it unless it is needed for any admin business but will keep it on hand.
     
  3. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,745
    Female
    London
    Yes it's the original form stamped and approved. Never let the original out of your sight. Contact a solicitor to make certified copies but not too many as you can use them again and again. If you have to send one off, always enclose a note asking for it back. Make an appointment with the bank and show them the certified document, they can make their own copy and pass it right back. They will probably give you your own cards with "POA for.." Or something on them. They should give you Internet access too. Try to speak to their POA specialist to set it all up properly.
     
  4. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Thank you both for your kind replies. I will make an appointment ASAP
     
  5. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    #5 Pete R, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
    My Mom is with Lloyds and Santander. Both very helpful and efficient in setting up the PoA. However neither would give a Debit Card. I do have cheques and internet access.

    I took along the original and they were very happy to copy it and give it me back there and then. I have so far never needed a certified copy.
    :)
     
  6. its a struggle

    its a struggle Registered User

    Like Pete R we have never had certified copies made of POA for MIL. When I take the orig. to the company that needs to see it I ask them to make their own copy. Don't see why mum should have to pay time & again for something she has already paid for!

    However, totally agree that if it needs to be sent away we would then get a certified copy.
     
  7. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,475
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Isn't it strange how banks vary? NatWest had no problem giving me (as POA for mum) a debit card with my name and PIN, Halifax were the same.
     
  8. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,314
    Female
    Chester
    I've registered POA with a few banks so far.

    Most seem to need an appointment, which if it's a local branch may only be on a certain day of the week. They have all asked me if she has capacity, which for the current accounts I have said yes to so that she can still use her cheque book to pay for her monthly meals bill and similar.

    TSB were fab, took 10 mins and I got debit card cheque book and pin within a week. closing this account so didn't' ask about internet banking.
    Skipton BS - didn't need an appointment even and took about 15 mins (not current accounts - just savings)
    HSBC - took about 15 mins, and forgot to get me to fill in debit card form so got to go back. Said once POA registered I need to go back to sort out internet banking.
    Nationwide -took about 40 minutes, as it was early days I don't think I asked for cheque book so will go back to sort out this week.
    Halifax - appts hard to come by, and need a full hour - I was 10 mins late and they wouldn't see me (school hols) so haven't been back yet (savings only).
    Chelsea - no branch near me - said I can go to Yorkshire no appointment needed - not done yet.

    I haven't got certified copies yet but need them for pensions and other investments not on the high st.

    I still have a long list of other banks/Building Socs to do - mum had made her savings very complex - I think due to dementia and worries about losing it on a bank collapse.

    You will need to take ID docs for yourself (passport/utility bill etc)

    For pension, DWP will accept a copy certified by the jobcentre - free, but you then have to post it direct to them.
     
  9. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Thank you! I've just made an appointment with Santander who my BIL banks with, but they told me that unless his POA has been registered with the court of protection then I can't have a debit card. This seems pretty daft because I'm going to need a card to make purchases for him for things like his shopping etc as he is housebound and unable to get out. Even if he could get out there is no way he would be able to use his card or even find his way to the bank as he's completely forgotten where he lives! As for trying to purchase something with his card over the telephone, that would be impossible as he is virtually deaf and has a lot of trouble actually processing information now. Will I be able to use his card details to make purchases once I'm registered as his attorney? It's all very confusing!
     
  10. jan.s

    jan.s Registered User

    Sep 20, 2011
    7,352
    Hi Kingfisher,

    My friend has POA for her mum, at Santander, and when she registered it, they tried to take away the bank card. She has fought this with both the local branch and head office and has now won! They have allowed a debit card. Her argument was similar to yours, but it did take the threat of closure before they succumbed.

    Good luck, get fighting.

    PS my solicitor doesn't charge me for certified copies, but perhaps I just lucky :)
     
  11. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Thank you Jan, I intend to give them a piece of my mind when I go into the branch next week. It's absolutely ridiculous to expect someone who has POA to operate on behalf of an incapacitated relative if they are not permitted access to all the benefits that the account holder is entitled to. Another thing that's worrying me is that my BIL tends to bin every letter that comes to his house, including bank statements and bills, or he will 'put them somewhere for safe keeping' and they are never seen again because he can't remember what he's done with them. This is going to make things really difficult as I wont know what is going in and out of his account. They said he will still get statements but I would rather they didn't send them as he has in the past gone over them and accused people of stealing his money, or has said that he never authorised a direct debit (he did), and to be honest they just confuse and upset him.
     
  12. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,314
    Female
    Chester
    I've read on other posts difficulties with different banks. Legally operating a POA means you are operating as them and have all the rights they do to operate the account. I have made sure all bank statements come to me (currently going to old house and redirected at the moment). Not all banks seem to understand this.

    I rang round yesterday for cost of certified copy of POA and I found one who charged £5.

    I had read about HSBC being awkward but they weren't (so far).
     
  13. jan.s

    jan.s Registered User

    Sep 20, 2011
    7,352
    That was another issue my friend (L) argued about, because her mum received the statements but didn't understand them. L now has them delivered to her house!

    I must say that I had no problem with Nationwide, for my husband. Everything just carried on as before, I used his card for Internet banking and the statements came addressed to me

    Mrs jan.s
    POA Mr Roger.s
    Address etc.

    Maybe worth mentioning to Santander about how other banks work!!!
     
  14. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,902
    Female
    Scotland
    I believe you can use the POA to redirect mail at the Post Office which would mean you get it first then pop the less important stuff through his letter box.
     
  15. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Thank you all so much, you have been very helpful! I didn't realise that it was possible to have his mail redirected to me so I shall look into that.
     
  16. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Wow, it costs £60 per year to have his mail redirected!
     
  17. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    #17 Kingfisher1, Jul 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
    OK guys, I have my appointment with "Emma" this morning at Santander to register my BIL's POA. They said to expect the appointment to last roughly an hour, can't really understand why so long but hey ho, and I have all the relevant documentation ready.

    Several people have told me that if I'm insistant enough they may well issue me with a debit card so that I can start using it to pay for his shopping, bills, and anything else he needs instead of using my card and waiting for him to reimburse me. I can no longer afford to sub him (I don't mean that in a nasty way, but I'm a widowed parent on benefits and my income is very limited) and then wait for the cheque he gives me to clear into my account. We live over 50 miles from him and can only visit fortnightly so sometimes I'm waiting over a month for cleared funds to go in and I'm losing track of what is what.

    He is no longer able to manage his finances, he cannot get out of the house anyway as his legs no longer hold him up, and the carers keep going on at me to order him a new washing machine as his old one is starting to break down, but in all honesty I just do not have the £200 odd pounds to buy one and then wait to be reimbursed. It is all such a worry and the financial problems it is causing me is giving me sleepless nights. Of course my BIL doesn't comprehend any of this, and I don't want to burden him with my problems, but I don't see why I can't just have a card, surely as long as I keep meticulous records of any transactions how can it be a issue?

    Does anyone have any advice for me going into this meeting? How do I put my point across without getting angry and losing my rag? I want to appear calm and self assured and try to make them understand my predicament, but already I can feel my blood pressure rising and the appointment isn't until 11am! HELP!!!!
     
  18. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,745
    Female
    London
    Give them examples why you need a debit card, for example you need to be able to withdraw money from an ATM to buy groceries. You need a debit card to pay in a shop. You need it to buy goods online (anything from groceries to clothes to incontinence pads). It's madness to try and operate finances for someone without a debit card. How are you supposed to deal with the day to day expenses? It's not like a standing order to the supermarket would work!
     
  19. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    Exactly Beate! And as his attorney I understood that in effect I am the same person as the donor, and I have the legal right to conduct financial affairs in the way that the donor would surely? How is depriving me of a debit card affirming me the same rights as the account holder?
     
  20. Kingfisher1

    Kingfisher1 Registered User

    May 7, 2015
    54
    Kent
    I'm am also concerned about this reply from another forum. Didn't think about the implications of keep transferring money from his account to mine....

    'As regards buying stuff yourself and transferring the money, I would be inclined to only do that if it became absolutely necessary, for several reasons. First of all, you may just possibly be called upon to show you were acting in the best interests of the Donor, as you are required to do, and if you are making lots of transfers from their account to yours over a period of time that becomes more difficult to demonstrate. There could also be difficulties related to IHT (if that money were deemed to have been a gift to you) and deprivation of assets (if he should go into a care home at some stage). It's so much more straightforward if anything he pays for goes directly to the retailer or service provider from his account'
     

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