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POA. THe OPG accepted the forms, what is wrong with the Extra Care Manager

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by nae sporran, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. nae sporran

    nae sporran Volunteer Host

    Oct 29, 2014
    5,725
    Male
    Bristol
    Sorry, it was long morning with the manager of the Extra Care Housing scheme. I gave her the POA forms for her records and she questioned everything. It was not signed by a solicitor, it needed a doctor to witness and attest to capacity, it should only be obtained when capacity is lost. I've never seen one signed by a chiropodist before.
    She accepted it eventually, but was being a right pain before that. Surely if my partner's chiropodist witnessed all signatures and attested to C's capacity that is valid. C's chiropodist has know us for years, and was practice nurse before that, so she knows C and has some understanding of dementia. Also, if the OPG accepted the forms and stamped all the pages then it is valid.
    I never thought we would need to activate it or inform too many people so long as C has capacity, but am now thinking I should register it at the GP and the bank. I already have authority from C to represent her at both the bank and the surgery, but it can't hurt just to get ahead of the game and avoid 1000 questions and all the bureaucracy at a later date when circumstances will already be difficult.
    Does anyone know how I go about all that and what problems it might cause. Do I need to get every page signed again?
     
  2. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    1,073
    I take it you are referring to both financial and health & welfare LPA's? A health & welfare LPA can only be used when the person has lost capacity so no point registering this with the GP or the manager of the extra care housing until your partner has lost capacity as you can't 'get ahead of the game' with regards the health & welfare LPA.

    The financial LPA can be used either as soon as it is registered - with the consent of the donor - or only when the donor has lost capacity. There is a box to tick on the form to show which of these applies. If the financial LPA can be used either with or without capacity you can register it with the bank now, but bear in mind that your partner's accounts may be closed and new ones opened in your name (as attorney). Banks are used to dealing with financial LPA's so you shouldn't get the same response as you did from the housing manager, who seems to have limited knowledge of LPA's. With regards getting every page signed, my Mum's bank asked to see the original LPA then made a copy for their records. Other places may request a certified copy of the LPA which, as your partner still has capacity, can be done by her signing every page of a photo copy of the original LPA and sating that it is a certified copy of the original. Don't provide the original to anyone!
     
  3. northumbrian_k

    northumbrian_k Registered User

    Mar 2, 2017
    716
    Male
    Newcastle
    #3 northumbrian_k, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    I arranged a meeting with my wife's bank ensuring that they were aware that it was so I could manage her financial affairs. She was in respite care at the time. At no point was the validity of my claim that I needed to act on her behalf questioned. I took with me the original validated version of the Lasting Power of Attorney. The very helpful chap took a photocopy then made sure that all pages were returned to me. He took my wife's debit card and removed her Internet access.

    Her account was kept open and I received a new card in my name as her representative a few days later. I was able to get back online by setting up a new ID in my name. I did not set up phone banking at the meeting but was able to do this later by phone. All of this was straightforward and took little time. This was at the bank that appeals to the horsey set and also covered its Scottish subsidiary.

    When my wife moved to residential care I registered her with the GP practice recommended by the home. That just involved filling in some standard forms with no mention of Power of Attorney. At her previous practice I told the doctor that I held POA but she was not really interested. She was used to me accompanying my wife and sometimes speaking for her. There was never any suggestion that I could not be party to discussions about my wife's health. If I had not been allowed to be present the consultation would have been a waste of time as my wife would forget before leaving the room.

    As for who signed your Lasting Power of Attorney, that is nobody's business and totally irrelevant once it has been validated by the Office of the Public Guardian. The person who acted as certificate provider for my wife was a friend of mine - an ex-architect as it happens, so no kind of health professional - who was qualified to do so because he had known her for more than 2 years. The extra-care manager you mention seems to be rather ignorant about how Power of Attorney is granted and works. Neither legal nor health professionals need to be involved.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. nae sporran

    nae sporran Volunteer Host

    Oct 29, 2014
    5,725
    Male
    Bristol
    Thanks for the advice Louise and Northumbrian K. I have a card with my name on it from the bank, but I'll speak to them with a bit more confidence.
     
  5. northumbrian_k

    northumbrian_k Registered User

    Mar 2, 2017
    716
    Male
    Newcastle
    I was going to add that where I have had face to face meetings I have been happy to hand over the original validated copy of the Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) for photocopy and immediate return, always checking that every page has been returned. Where I have had to send it through the post I have used the donor certified copy that my wife prepared back in 2016 when she still had capacity to do so. That has been fine for Attendance Allowance (AA) claims and certain investment and savings institutions but one had its own rules that would have entailed getting a solicitor involved. We decided that it was better just to close the account and move the money, which is now being used to pay her care home fees.

    I had been concerned that - given her diminished grip on reality - my claim to be operating her account online under my wife's instructions was looking rather thin, which is why I was keen to register Power of Attorney with the bank. I needed to prove my ID and allow a copy of the LPA to be taken. The fat file containing my wife's medical history, AA claims, council tax disregard, needs assessments and so on was not even looked at.

    Hope all goes well.
     
  6. McBeagle

    McBeagle Registered User

    Aug 11, 2019
    20
    As Louise7 says, the bank should be better and I would be careful of registering it unless you do want to take control of the accounts at this stage. If not, it should be better to wait until you reach that stage and then lodge the LPA with the bank.
     
  7. nae sporran

    nae sporran Volunteer Host

    Oct 29, 2014
    5,725
    Male
    Bristol
    I've not spokento the bank yet, but their website has a handy form to add my name to the account with the POA. I already do all the banking anyway with authority from their own form which OH signed. That gives me a card with my name on it, and I wondered if adding the POA would make it more official. I don't want to complicate matters though.
     
  8. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    2,833
    Nottinghamshire
    I had no problems with registering dad's POA with his bank. I was prepared for a fight as they wouldn't let me have a card to use on his account even though he went into the bank to request it. They just copied it and sent me a card a few days later. I had to take ID.

    I felt the same as you @nae sporran. I was worried that the bank wouldn't accept the POA and I'd not be able to access Dad's money to pay his carers.

    My aunt's bank had allowed her to give me a card a few years ago so I never used her POA at all. Perhaps I should have but she only really lost capacity in the last 2 weeks of her life. Her VasD was mostly physical.
     
  9. MaNaAk

    MaNaAk Registered User

    Jun 19, 2016
    1,227
    Essex
    I had the same as Louise with regard to LPA for Finance with regard to the LPA for Health the care home wanted to take a copy of this and I used to take it to the hospital with me. With regard
    to the manageress of the Extra Housing Care I would question her qualifications!

    MaNaAk
     
  10. Banjomansmate

    Banjomansmate Registered User

    Jan 13, 2019
    976
    Female
    Dorset
    The Banjoman’s LPAs were done through a Solicitor when he was already showing signs of dementia so they were registered with CoP immediately and I was given copies certified by the Solicitor and have never had a problem with any of them.
    I took the Financial one into his bank, who gave me a debit card while he retained his as he was still going shopping etc. and I use telephone banking to make payments when necessary. Certified copies for finance have been sent to Govt. and local Govt offices as needed and H & W registered with his GP and shown by me and photocopied every time he has been admitted to hospital - despite the wonders of modern technology they always need to see it as invariably “there is nothing in his current notes”.
    His Care home have accepted and photocopied the H & W and his Advance Directive.

    Although they cost more by using a Solicitor I have found them so easy to obtain and use as the Solicitor has done all the work and retains the original while providing me with certified copies. So far I have managed with two for finance, one to keep and one to post off and one H & W which I take with me when I think it might be needed.
     
  11. nae sporran

    nae sporran Volunteer Host

    Oct 29, 2014
    5,725
    Male
    Bristol
    The surgery have asked for copies, but not for them to be certified. The bank forms don't appear to offer any more than a card I can use for OH's account, which she has authorised me to have anyway. It looks like it should be less complicated than expected, so I'll take copies to both places today between showers. Thanks for the feedback and advice everyone, sorry you have to make new copies for the hospital every time @Banjomansmate, that is needless hassle.
     

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