PIP application - is there any point?

[sarahsea]

We successfully applied for PIP about 3 years ago. It all went very smoothly. Some items on the assessment were marked lower than expected (my wife could still talk the talk) and others higher but they balanced out.

I applied on behalf of my wife as I have Power of Attorney. This took a few extra days for them to register it but (if I remember correctly) any payment given is backdated to the day of the first phone call. I was with my wife during the interview and the interviewer asked my opinion on most questions after my wife had given her answer.

The thing to remember about PIP is that it is given for the effect of an illness on your and your OH's life, not on a diagnosis of the illness. So just having a diagnosis of Alzheimer's isn't enough, you have to show that there are things your OH has difficulty doing and give examples.

I found the best way to do this was to keep a diary over 3 (bad) days - the headings for the diary were with the online application form. I made a note at the top of the diary that I had written it but it was presented from my wife's point of view. To some extent you need to stand back and write the diary in a very factual way, this is where the Alzheimer Society or CAB may help.

For example under "Dressing / Undressing" we put "Needed help to decide what to wear. Dressed myself except socks and shoes. Needed reminding to put on glasses and hearing aids. Undressed myself at night". Best to be completely honest (helps you at the interview) but don't be afraid of putting in trivial issues. Include all the times your OH gets confused, forgets things or needs help.

@sarahsea I think you've got all the relevant symptoms in your paragraph starting "So, this is the problem" but instead of "he cannot recognise people" you'll need real examples such as "We met X in town today, OH has known him well for 5 years but didn't recognise him". Keep a notebook for a few days and every time something happens write in the time, place and a one sentence description of what happened. Don't write too much and don't try to go back to refine notes afterwards. After week go through the all notes and you'll have the basis of your diary.

Even if you can only get the minimum level of PIP apply before your OH is 65 as PIP is more than Attendance Allowance. PIP continues after your OH is 65 and can be reassessed at any age.

Thank you BeardyD, I already keep a diary and I can think of many examples which would support the application and demonstrate the impact of the illness on my husband's life. I'm sure I could pull out some notes which I could use. When you live with someone with a progressive illness, you don't always recognise the daily difficulties as they change (get worse) over time. For example, if someone asked me if my husband can dress himself in the morning, I would probably say yes, but in reality, he often asks me what to wear, which trousers fit him, he puts dirty clothes back in the wardrobe instead of in the laundry basket, so gets in a muddle re what's clean, can't find his socks etc. It can take a while and I often have to support him.
I think I am beginning to understand how the information has to be presented. Thanks again for such a helpful reply.

 

[canary]

Hi @sarahsea
The form often gets divided up with different people looking at different questions, so make sure you answer each question fully, even if you do end up repeating yourself. I have been told by DWP that you should also answer the questions as if it were his worst day. For example - if he can often wash himself without help, but sometimes requires you to help him, answer the question saying how you have to help him on a bad day.

 

[sarahsea]

Hi @sarahsea
The form often gets divided up with different people looking at different questions, so make sure you answer each question fully, even if you do end up repeating yourself. I have been told by DWP that you should also answer the questions as if it were his worst day. For example - if he can often wash himself without help, but sometimes requires you to help him, answer the question saying how you have to help him on a bad day.

Thanks Canary - good advice. The washing question is an interesting one as he's quite capable of taking a shower, but I'm lucky if he has one more than once a month. He was never the sort of man who would shower every day, but I encourage him to shower 2 or 3 times a week - especially in this hot weather. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not. A CPN visited him at home recently and asked him if he managed OK washing himself / taking showers and he confidently replied that he managed very well! I had to interject as although he's physically capable, since dementia joined us a couple of years ago, he sees washing as unnecessary. I have checked that it's not a problem with the shower e.g. a slippery floor and we also have a second bathroom he could use (originally installed for his dad), which has a seat and a grab rail, but he won't use that one either! Sorry, I seem to have rambled on about showers for too long....

 

[Shedrech]

hi @sarahsea
your 'ramblings' are exactly what you need to put on the form - and even make clear that these aren't exactly rational choices your husband is making, it's the way his brain has been affected that means he doesn't grasp why some tasks are important eg for hygiene

 

[NORTHSIDE]

Hi @sarahsea, I applied for Pip on behalf of my wife a couple of years ago. She had no idea there was anything wrong with her but she had severe short and long term memory loss, needed prompting to carry out any activity and had lost the ability to write, read or speak coherently.

Hopefully it will reassure you to some extent that when an assessor did come to verify the application my wife would not cooperate at all and even refused to stay in the room after the first couple of minutes. I answered questions on my wife's behalf but the assessor was very sympathetic even to the point of admitting that there was no need for the assessment. My wife was granted both the full living and mobility allowance which was back dated to the date of application. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[AliceA]

Hi Sarah,
Don't really know anything about the PiP but you can contact your Local Authority directly to ask for the C.Tax reduction, they will just need a copy of the diagnosis and the refund will be from the same date. Good luck and wish you well.

May I suggest you get Age UK or similar to fill in the forms for you. I did that on AA I was surprised how much help I was given

 

[sarahsea]

I don't know why my heading to this thread has been changed? Originally it was "PiP application - is their any point?" I can't seem to change it back, can anyone help. The replies have been so helpful, I would hate to miss any other comments about PiP.

 

[sarahsea]

May I suggest you get Age UK or similar to fill in the forms for you. I did that on AA I was surprised how much help I was given

Thank you AliceA, I will definitely follow this up.

 

[sarahsea]

hi @sarahsea
your 'ramblings' are exactly what you need to put on the form - and even make clear that these aren't exactly rational choices your husband is making, it's the way his brain has been affected that means he doesn't grasp why some tasks are important eg for hygiene

Thank you for your reply Shedrech. I think that as the disease progresses, various behaviours (like not washing) become the new "norm". It's helpful to stand back for a moment and realise that it's not normal and can be harmful.

 

[sarahsea]

Hi @sarahsea, I applied for Pip on behalf of my wife a couple of years ago. She had no idea there was anything wrong with her but she had severe short and long term memory loss, needed prompting to carry out any activity and had lost the ability to write, read or speak coherently.

Hopefully it will reassure you to some extent that when an assessor did come to verify the application my wife would not cooperate at all and even refused to stay in the room after the first couple of minutes. I answered questions on my wife's behalf but the assessor was very sympathetic even to the point of admitting that there was no need for the assessment. My wife was granted both the full living and mobility allowance which was back dated to the date of application. Good luck and best wishes.

Thank you NORTHSIDE. Yes, that is reassuring. I hope that when it comes to the assessment that common sense will prevail and the assessor will understand the difficulties.

 

[AliceA]

Thank you AliceA, I will definitely follow this up.

I had help with an AA form. I am quite competent but I had 'normalised' many things as just being what you do for some you love. I know PIP is different but the wording is so important. The best of luck.

 

[sarahsea]

Hello again, thank you for all your helpful comments.
I'm still a bit confused about how to progress things and I wonder if anyone can advise? I started the phone application for PiP on 6th July and I explained that my husband has Alzheimer's and that I have PoA, so would be completing the application on his behalf. They said that was OK. About 2 weeks later I had a letter asking for ID and I sent off my husband's passport and our marriage certificate. As I hadn't heard anything for a while I rang to check progress and was told they'd received the documents and the application form would be with me soon. I explained again about the PoA and was told to take it to the local job centre where it would be scanned and sent to the "PiP people". Unfortunately they didn't tell me that on 6th July. So I did that and the application form arrived a week later addressed to my husband. My husband's response was to say that he doesn't have a disability, but I've rescued the form from him (and he's forgotten about it) with the intention of completing it on his behalf.
But, this is my question. Do I complete it as if I'm him i.e. written in the first person, with him signing the declaration? He can still read quite well and I'm sure he'd never sign it. Or, do I write it in the third person and sign it myself.

Apologies if this is a silly question. I used to be quite intelligent and capable before Alzheimer;s joined us....

 

[LynneMcV]

When I filled it in for my husband I wrote as if I was him.

 

[sarahsea]

When I filled it in for my husband I wrote as if I was him.

Thanks Lynne - did he sign it, or did you?

 

[LynneMcV]

Thanks Lynne - did he sign it, or did you?

I am trying to think. The first time around, six years ago, my husband signed it. A few years later, I had to apply for a reassessment as there had been some changes and I would definitely have filled in and signed that application because he could no longer write and did not have mental capacity.

I am pretty sure there was somewhere on the form to indicate that I had signed it on behalf of my husband - and as they had me down as POA for him, there was no issue with it.

 

[canary]

I think you fill it in as if it were him filling it in, but then you sign it yourself. I think there is a space to explain why you have signed it on his behalf.

 

[LynneMcV]

I can't cut and paste on my device but I just took a look at a sample form and on page 4 there is a section about signing for someone else and a box to tick to say you have POA.

 

[sarahsea]

I can't cut and paste on my device but I just took a look at a sample form and on page 4 there is a section about signing for someone else and a box to tick to say you have POA.

Well that's strange. Page 4 on my form is blank ! I'm thinking I'll have to ring them and ask how to proceed. Thanks again for your help.

 

[sarahsea]

I think you fill it in as if it were him filling it in, but then you sign it yourself. I think there is a space to explain why you have signed it on his behalf.

Thanks Canary, yes that makes sense. There isn't a designated place for me to say that I have PoA or why I'm signing. Think I'll have to phone the PiP people and ask!

 

[sarahsea]

Hello again, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who offered advice about PiP. It was really useful and I sent the completed form off today. I don't know if I said enough, but I did my best. I have to say that it was very sad to actually write down how dementia affects my husband's day to day life. It creeps up on you and you don't always realise how bad things have become. I just have to wait now and see if the claim goes through.