1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    My husband has had early onset Alzheimer's since he was 61, now going to be 65 this year. I am 60 and receive carer allowance and my husband receives ESA and DLA at the moment.

    He has a private pension that I now need to sort out. I have registered the POA with them and spoken to one of their advisors and I have also spoken to a welfare officer with Alz Soc. It seems that I will need legal advise as to what I (as POA) do with this pension.

    Has anyone else had to set up a pension using POA?
     
  2. 100 miles

    100 miles Registered User

    Apr 16, 2015
    109
    What sort of pension is it? Is it a company final salary pension? Or one with a pot of money?

    Some companies let people take pensions early if they are ill and unable to work again. (Bit late to tell you that now :( ) It depends on the rules of the scheme.

    If it is a cash pension pot you may be able to get an 'impaired health annuity', so he will receive extra money because he is ill. I am not sure if dementia qualifies as a condition...it probably varies with different providers. You may need to find a financial advisor with pensions qualifications.

    Yes. I know you have enough to do already. Sorry to add to your burden. Try CAB? Age Uk?

    And I know I haven't answered your question about PoA.
     
  3. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    If it's a personal pension where you have to decide if you want an annuity, you definitely need some independent financial advice, preferably from someone with specialist qualifications. There is a significant variation between different companies so please don't just go with the organisation the savings are currently with; in my case this would have meant a loss of several hundred pounds a year.

    We fond a good IFA via this website:

    http://www.payingforcare.org

    CAB etc can give general information, as can the gov.uk website

    https://www.pensionwise.gov.uk

    I believe you can also get a telephone appointment to speak to one of the Pension Wise advisers. However, only an IFA can give you personalised recommendations based on your individual circumstances. It cost £150 to get advice on how to manage paying for mum's care costs, but it was money well spent.
     
  4. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    Thank you for your replies. I got a phone number for a lawyer that may give me advice. Questions being, can I as POA set up a joint annuity so the pension passes to me on his death. If I do take the 25% tax free sum offered, then in a couple of years if we need care, is this money all my husbands assets or is half of it mine?

    I have read some of the pensionwise site and if I go for drawdown as my BIL suggests then the council will take the figure of how much we would have got if I had taken an annuity not what we have taken out that year. I have asked about this already and since the council have not issued guidelines as to how they are going to see this and the 25% lump sum I could not get any answers.

    My husband was a Quantity Surveyor and has lost all numerical skills. I tried a few times to tell him the options and he says 'I know you will do the right thing'. :confused: I cannot get my state pension till 2020 so it scares me a bit that he might need care before then.
     
  5. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    #5 Pickles53, Jul 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
    In other circumstances, when the LA get involved in funding care I understand the person receiving care contributes most of their state pension plus half of any private pension.

    Can't help with your questions about the joint lives annuity or how lump sum would be treated, will post again if I find something. Might it be worth a call to the OPG about the first question? I say this because if you go for a joint lives annuity, the amount paid per year would be lower than if you go for a single life. Would the OPG consider that was in your husband's best financial interests?

    Have you already seen this, sections 8.64 to 8.66, Annexes B & C. There's a lot to wade through, but it may be in there somewhere:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/366104/43380_23902777_Care_Act_Book.pdf
     
  6. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,384
    Male
    North Manchester
    I don't know your relative ages but it may be worth while doing a bit of Googling on joint life annuity rates.

    After redundancy I ran a business with my wife, we both paid into a pension scheme, when we sold the business the best annuity I could get for my wife (not with the company we had paid into) was the same for single life and joint 100% life, she was four years younger than me and female. As she died 17 years later the actuaries got it wrong.
    I took a single life annuity as I had an occupational pension with widows benefits.
     
  7. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    Thanks Pickles, I will have a read through some of this tomorrow and get some questions ready for speaking to this lawyer. Phoning the OPG is something I had not thought of so I will give them a call on Monday aso well. Thank you for the help.

    Nitrate I am 60 and my husband will be 65 in September. I gave up work last year and took a small pension early at £42 a month plus my carer allowance so I am relying on my husbands pensions to keep us both. I moved us to a better house last year and have made changes to the house so that my husband can stay home for as long as he can.
     
  8. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,384
    Male
    North Manchester
    #8 nitram, Jul 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
    Commutation may be better than joint pension, maybe commutation and single impaired life, also look at level compared to any kind of annual increment.

    Remember that even if the OPG agree to somethng it does not mean that the LA will also agree.

    PS I'm not an NO[SUB]3[/SUB]
     
  9. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Had another look.... See page 423 which specifically refers to the recent changes in personal pension rules.

    Looks like you may need at least to find out what an annuity would pay even if you choose not to take one out.
     
  10. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    This is from the pensionwise site.

    If you do take an income:

    if it’s lower than your notional income, the higher amount will be taken into account when your income is assessed
    if it’s higher than your notional income, this amount will be used instead
    Example
    You’re 69 and applying for Council Tax Reduction. You have a pension pot of £40,000 and take an adjustable income of £1,000 a year from it. DWP have calculated that you could get £1,800 a year from an annuity. They will take £1,800 into account when assessing your income

    So if I go for drawdown pension and my husband goes into care how would I find the extra £800? This means that drawdown is not an option and I need to take an annuity paying out the most money which mean no joint annuity either.

    Thanks Pickles for looking at this again for me. Carol
     
  11. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,384
    Male
    North Manchester
  12. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    They company the pension is with, has given me a list of options with amounts each pension will provide. I just need to find out as POA can I take the joint annuity as my pension is very little and I am on carer allowance for another 4 1/2 years?

    My husband has another pension from a company he work for in the 80s. He was with them for 2 years and it pays a small amount but my husband had set it up so it comes to me on his death. So I feel that would have been the option he would have gone for is a joint annuity. There is a public holiday here tomorrow so I won't be able to speak to the lawyer till Tuesday but I will call OPG.
     
  13. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    I wonder on what basis DWP would do their calculations? Given the significant difference between the annuity payments quoted to me for the same value pension pot, my cynical soul says they would calculate an annuity amount much higher than you could actually get in real life.
     
  14. NanLorac

    NanLorac Registered User

    May 14, 2012
    686
    Female
    Scotland
    I have spoken to the OPG and the lawyer. Can take any pension option so long as my husband best interests are being taken care of. I will find a financial consultant and get some pension advice now.

    Thank you for the help. Carol x
     
  15. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,384
    Male
    North Manchester
    "Can take any pension option so long as my husband best interests are being taken care of"

    If you go for any kind of second life pension this would probably mean a trustee would have to be appointed to protect his interests. The criterion could well be the size of the reduction in annuity compared with single life and it's likely impact on his living standard.

    There is also the guaranteed period option to be considered.
     

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