pension and NH costs

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
I am very worried after a phone call from the social worker today. Is all my husbands occupation pension used to pay for a nursing home? or is it half his pension? I also phoned up a nursing home and i was asked if he was self funded, was the local authority going to pay or was the NHS paying. It all seems very confusing. If they take all his pension i think he will be sell funding but i will be left with nothing to life of. Nothing has been said to me about NHS paying towards his care ether. He has complex needs as well. I know its means tested. I have read going into care, but with what was said ( his pension will be used to pay ) does not go with what i read.
I am that worried that i am not now putting the heating on ( and its cold) to save money.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Chip have you see this http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/assets/library/documents/52_Care_Home_Fees_paying_them_in_Scotland.pdf?

The difficulty you are going to have with any information that might be available online is that the assumption is that anyone using it is going to be over 65, and I know that you and your husband don't fall into that category.

However, CRAG (Charging for Residential Accomodation Guidle) does not seem to distinguish between over and under 65s and that says

"For example the spouse should be left with enough income to be able to live on, which means being left with income above means tested benefits such as Income Support/Pension Credit, housing benefit, council tax benefit and tax credits. In addition, reasonable expenses should be allowed for the partner such as for visits to spouse in care, expenses to maintain the home and any other expenses arising from serious or prolonged illness, infirmity, or disability. "

Edited to add further info. CRAG also says this

"local authorities are required to ignore half of a resident's occupational pension where the resident is paying half of that pension to a spouse, or civil partner, (see 8.024A). " so I would say without a doubt that the maximum used in the assessment is half of your husband's occupational pension not all of it.
 
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chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
Thanks i have been working things out and i would only have £22 left a month and that would have to pay for food a month if they take half his pension. I will also have to find out about council tax as my son stays with me but is unemployed.
I am also wondering if i should contact the power company and see if i can pay what we are due them and to see if that will reduce the monthly payments.
I have applied for DLA they are contacting the gp but i dont give much hope in getting it, but if i do at least will be able to eat but don't no how i will pay any extra bills and the car which i need although i cant drive at the moment but my son drives me. Yes its a really worring time. I thought things couldn't get worse and they are.
I have been searching the net to try and find things out as well and all i can find is for over 65's. Are under 65's not ment to get ill never mind Dementia?
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Dear Chip

Well the 50% of the pension is the MAXIMUM they can take, and since CRAG also says that the spouse should be left with income above what they would receive under means tested benefits, I don't believe that you would be left with this miniscule income.

When you talk about paying off the power company, do you mean that by doing so you'd be paying down your joint savings? Because that sounds a logical thing to do, if so.
 

alfjess

Registered User
Jul 10, 2006
1,213
south lanarkshire
Hi Chip

Could you apply for DLA for yourself?

You could probably then get a mobility car, so that would be one problem solved.

If your son is unemployed, could you then get a reduction in council tax?

There is a minimum amount to live on and £22.00 pounds per month doesn't sound near the minimum amount.

The welfare/benefits advisor in SS, should be helping you, if not phone the welfare helpline at Ahlzheimers Scotland.

The Glasow branch were really helpful when I contacted them for my parents.

Take care
Alfjess
 

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
i can do nothing at the moment as been told the assesment will not be done until 3 nursing homes have been to assess him and its after SS have got the costs that the financil assesment will be done. I've also been told that SS have cut the money they give for help and nursing homes so they might not approve a nursing home because its costing too much. Yet local authorities state that needs come before cost yet they have reduced the budget for care. The system is now in a bad state. I think shortly everyone will be made to take out health care cover for care incase you get ill so to pay it youself. I thought thats what we paid NI for?
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
Chip I will also have to find out about council tax as my son stays with me but is unemployed.
In the meantime waiting for financial assessment for your husband . You can check out if scotland the same as in UK , that if the person who is living with you is unemployed they don't have to pay any contribution to council tax while unemployed . As long as you take some proof that his is on unemployment benefit to your local council tax office .
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
chip said:
i can do nothing at the moment as been told the assesment will not be done until 3 nursing homes have been to assess him and its after SS have got the costs that the financil assesment will be done. I've also been told that SS have cut the money they give for help and nursing homes so they might not approve a nursing home because its costing too much.
Chip, I can't understand this at all. As you know, I'm in Scotland too, and although I know that LAs try to make their own rules, I had thought they had to abide by Scottish Executive guidelines.

Our authority has a set scale of fees that they will pay for residential, nursing, or EMI care, and there is are set allowances for personal care and EMI care. The only assessment John had was to determine whether he qualified for the EMI addition, and that was conducted by the psychiatric liaison nurse.

Once that's approved, John can go into any NH, anywhere in Scotland, and still get the same allowance. The NH only assess him for the care plan when we have decided where he is to go. And the LA tells the NH the most they can charge.

I know your husband is under 65, but surely the same allowances should apply?
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Chip, exactly WHO told you all this? Because I agree with Hazel, this doen't make sense at all: if your husband needs nursing care of whatever, it's based on his needs not what the LA can afford.
 

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
The hospital social worker told me that. He also agreed its bad. I have been doing a big clear out and found the letters 9/5/05 hospital appointment on the 31st end of june 05 neuropsychological testing got the letter 26/7/05 diagnoised. Got a social worker oct 05 got direct payments for 10hrs a week care in Feb 06, she left in Jan 06 didnt get another social worker until Sept 06 ( and that was after a few visits to see the MSP who wrote to them ) during this break with no social worker myoclonics started Eventually got medication to control that. And the 10hrs a week didnt change. This SW hardly ever seen him even though he was deteriorating Got respite for one night 28/11/06 to 29/11/06 social services took all DLA care component and all his occupation pension taken into account of assesment for respite. After a letter to them got a response to it 15/2/07 that i was correct in pointing out that the care component should not have been taken into account and that they wanted a letter from my husband ( who could not write his speech was deteriorating as well ) to give authorisation for 50% of the occupational pension to me and they said that as to date he has not done this the whole weekly figure will be included. In Feb ILF was applied for but it takes 3 months to come through they said 29hrs a week care was required Then on the end of March seizures started and the rapid decline. ILF never started. In June he took more seizures and between July till now all he can do is wonder about. I'm glad i found the letters as i now can prove things. As the nursing homes are going to assess him this week to see if he fits nursing home or NHS contining care criteria
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
chip said:
.As the nursing homes are going to assess him this week to see if he fits nursing home or NHS contining care criteria
Oh, I see. I didn't realise the assessments were for continuing care. I've no experience of that.

I hope it all goes well for you, please let us know, I'll certainly be interested.

Love,
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
I suppose it might be different in Scotland, but in England, NHS Continuing care assessments are done not by the nursing home, but by the relevant PCT.
 

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
will let you no Skye. Its because the consulant said he doesnt qualify for continuing care but didnt give a reason and no assesment has been seen for it as well and the hospital SW saying he is 50-50 he also had doupts a nursing home will take him. There is only 3 in this area for younger people and one of them is just being built and has no places , another about 18miles from me ( not sure if they have places) and the last is a Bupa and about £1600 a week ( can't see them paying that) but the SW said they would have to if that was the only one who could take him. SW said a lot of NH will not take him because of his age rapid deterioration with seizures and the consultant saying he needs 24hr nursing care and isnt letting him home.
 

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