1. Liz57

    Liz57 Registered User

    Dec 22, 2013
    184
    Apologies if this has been addressed before but I'd appreciate some guidance.

    For a whole host of reasons, I've not got POA for mum. She's middle stage Alzheimers and although we discussed POA before, I didn't get very far with it, partly because when I told her how much the solicitor had quoted, she simply refused on the grounds it was too expensive. I know I should have done it myself at the time but my own problems (bereavement etc.) meant it seemed to slip to the back of the pile. Now when I discuss it with her, sometimes she's convinced we already have it in place and at other times she wants to talk to a solicitor.

    Aside from the fact that I'm doubtful that a solicitor will deem her to have capacity, I'm worried that if I make an appointment to see a solicitor and she either fails to convince him she understands and/or she refuses to pay, will I be left with the bill? I've had to reduce my working hours to care for her and my income has dropped by two thirds. Couple with some other issues, I simply don't have any savings or money to pay for proper legal advice.

    On a second but related subject, she has now at least partially agreed that a care home is now required. This is a huge relief to me as I'm finding caring for her beyond my capability, not least because the phone calls every few seconds at times of the day have driven me to breaking point. Social Services aren't interested in helping when they find out she owns her own home so I'm doing this all on my own. If she refuses to pay (and I don't have POA) will I have to pay her care home fees? I'm already paying for two days of daycare a week as she felt the cost too much (she can afford it but won't pay) and, coupled with her forgetfulness when paying for shopping I get for her, it's bankrupting me!

    Sorry, this sounds a bit pathetic, but I'm really struggling with this stuff.
     
  2. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,711
    Female
    London
    You do not need a solicitor to do POA, the only costs are for registration. It's relatively easy to fill in yourself and if you get stuck you can ask charities to help you or phone the OPG themselves.
    You also do not need a solicitor to be certificate provider - all that's required is a friend or neighbour who has known her for at least two years and is satisfied that she understands IN THE MOMENT what a POA is and that she is signing it of her free will. It does not matter whether she forgets it two minutes later. Each POA costs £110, if your Mum earns less than £12,000 a year, it reduces to half that.
    Don't delay, fill the forms in ASAP so you can start paying her bills from her own money.
    You can't be held responsible for her care home fees but if she refuses to pay them they simply won't let her stay.
     
  3. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    It does rather sound as if she no longer has capacity to grant an LPA. Which leaves you in a pickle. It's possible to get an LPA drawn up even after a diagnosis if she understands, at the time she is signing, even if she forgets afterwards, what she is doing. Do you have anyone (a long term friend or neighbour for example) who might be willing to be a certificate provider? Not to fudge the issue, but this sort of certificate provider is likely to be more willing to drop everything and talk to her on a good day, rather than you relying on a good day falling on the date of her solicitor's appointment. There's a facility online to fill out the forms https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-online-application-service-for-lasting-powers-of-attorney-lpa so you could get them ready. And I have to say, I might be more than a little cautious if there are any other family members likely to cause difficulties (in which case see below).

    If you did choose to go the solicitor route it wouldn't be your responsibility to pay, it would be hers. Mind you if a solicitor refused you'd be looking at the only other option: applying to be a deputy.

    https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy/overview

    Look - you're already supporting her and that's not right. You need to get either both LPAs in place or a deputyship (although if you are in England or Wales you are unlikely to get deputyship for welfare which might make getting her into a home more difficult). But I see no reason at all that you should be paying for her day care, her groceries or anything else frankly.
     
  4. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,322
    Female
    East Kent
    #4 lin1, Feb 6, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
    Hi.
    I agree if their is a chance of an LPA being granted , you should go for it . Hopefully mum will be having a good day when the certificate provider see's your mum.
    in the meantime you could become an appointee for her state pension and any state benefits your mum may be claiming.

    You need to contact the DWP, dept of work and pensions. They will send someone out to you, they will want to see mum and explain everything to you.
    I believe you need to open a separate account for state pension and any state benefits to be paid into.

    https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits
     
  5. Katrine

    Katrine Registered User

    Jan 20, 2011
    2,850
    England
    Keep all receipts for what you've already paid for and bank statements showing that it was you who paid. If you get POA then you can refund your expenses, including these costs. Please try to get POA if you possibly can. The costs of this, even through a solicitor, pale into insignificance compared to the costs of deputyship.

    I had to go the Scottish Guardianship (deputy) route with my mum. I would not have been able to do it without access to her bank account, which I already had as joint account holder. I have no income of my own and no savings any more.

    There were costs to lodge the initial application with the court; a fee for an indemnity insurance policy called a 'caution'; valuation fees for a) house b) silver and jewellery c) general household contents. At least the psychiatrist provided her report for free; most do not.

    Then there was the final application fee to COP, solicitor's fees, and the fee for submitting the Inventory and Management Plan to OPG. Each year there will be a fee to OPG for scrutinising the Annual Account, plus the annual caution (indemnity insurance) fee. The Guardianship Order was granted for 3 years, so in 2 years time we start all over again.
     
  6. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    #6 Pickles53, Feb 6, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
    I agree with JenniferPA that there is absolutely no reason why you should be paying your mum's daycare or other costs especially groceries. Does she realise this is what is happening?

    If you become an appointee, you can at least manage these costs from her DWP income. If she doesn't already get Attendance Allowance, you can also apply for this in her behalf (Age UK and AS branches can help you with the forms). Then she should also being getting exemption from council tax which will put a bit more in the pot.

    Care home fees are more tricky. If your mum would be self-funding I can't see any home accepting her if nobody has authorisation to pay the fees. But you must not pay for her; you can't jeopardise your own financial future.
     
  7. Liz57

    Liz57 Registered User

    Dec 22, 2013
    184
    Thanks everyone. I've done the forms myself but simply can't get her to accept I've done it properly. I did find a friend who was willing to confirm she had capacity but mum wants a solicitor to do it, or at least she did yesterday. I'll try again today but I'm not holding my breath!

    She's always been "careful" with her money, hence her refusal to pay the £40 a day for day care which she claimed was too expensive. However on the days she doesn't go, she will spend hours simply dialing my phone number. If I answer I get about 15 minutes before the next call if I'm lucky but if I don't, the phone rings every few seconds, she hangs up and dials again (couldn't phone her back if I tried in those circumstances as the line is always engaged with her dialing). I simply couldn't cope with that but working partly from home (and needing the phone to do so!), I had to put her in daycare for my own sanity.
     
  8. Liz57

    Liz57 Registered User

    Dec 22, 2013
    184
    So, have managed to get her to sign and the certificate provider (brought in during the morning when Mum is a bit more "with it") seemed happy enough to sign so we're on our way. The forms are on their way to my brother who lives 200 miles away but is "joint and several" attorney. Once they get back, I can start the process of registration.

    However, 48 hours after signing, it is clear mum is on a downward slope and tonight it is very clear that a care home is probably my only option and soon. She's saying she's scared of living in her own home and its simply not an option for her to live with me. Do I have to wait for the POA before I can find her a care home? At the moment she's OK with the suggestion but I've heard scare stories that if she refuses once we get there, they'll send her home!
     
  9. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,711
    Female
    London
    Start looking now, it might take you a while to find a home that you are happy with and that has room for her. You never know, she might not refuse to pay and if she does you can always explain to the care home that in about 2 - 3 months you will have POA registered and any arrears will be paid then.
     
  10. Liz57

    Liz57 Registered User

    Dec 22, 2013
    184
    Thanks Beate. That's reassuring.

    BTW, I love the line below your posts - "just keep swimming". It does sometimes feel as if I'm drowning!
     
  11. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,711
    Female
    London
    Thanks! It's what forgetful Dory says in Finding Nemo. I thought it was an appropriate quote. Good luck with the hunt for a care home!
     
  12. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,322
    Female
    East Kent
    Glad you have managed to sort the LPA.
    I dont know if the OPG still do certified copies or how much they are.
    you will need a few certified copies as you shouldn't let the original out of your sight .
    Solicitors can do certified copies for a fee.

    I agree start checking out homes now. That way you will know what ones are suitable , it is not always the dearest ones that give the best care.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.