• Expert Q&A: Rare dementias - Tues 3 March, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of rare dementias. It will be hosted by Nikki and Seb from Rare Dementia Support. If you have any questions about rare dementias, they will be here to answer them on Tuesday 3 March between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

Paying for Care

mocha

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
176
85
Lancs, England
I need a bit of advice. Could somebody tell me how they pay for Residential Care? My husband has been in a NH for several weeks but I haven't been asked for any payment yet. I have been told how much I will have to pay but not had any bills.
I think that his pensions will still go direct into our bank account and I will be sent a monthly invoice but my friend is convinced that the Social Services will want them transferred to them direct.
I have paid it my way for his respite visits and think it will just carry on the same way.
I would like to know how others pay. I would imagine that they [S.S's]
only handle it themselves if a person lives on their own.
Oh! and does the Attendence Allowance stop?

Best Wishes to all
Aileen
 

connie

Registered User
Mar 7, 2004
9,519
Frinton-on-Sea
Hi Aileen, if you are paying for the whole of your care you keep your attendance allowance.

Not sure what the set up is if paying a contribution to care. I get billed for the whole of Lionel's care, so I set up a direct debit to pay for same. Only our personal experience of course.
 

Kayla

Registered User
May 14, 2006
621
Kent
My Mum is completely self-funding because of her house and savings and the social services are not involved in any way. The Nursing Home send an invoice each month to let us know about our account, but in fact we now pay a set amount by standing order each month.
Mum gets Registered Nursing Care Allowance(medium rate), higher rate of Attendance Allowance as well as her usual Old Age Pension. She has private pensions and also income from her house which is let to tennants through an Agency.
Perhaps you should ask for an invoice, in case there has been a mistake. Mum still has to pay income tax, which does seem unfair to me, when she is so dependent and in a wheelchair.
Kayla
 

connie

Registered User
Mar 7, 2004
9,519
Frinton-on-Sea
Kayla, had not thought about the Income tax element. Yes Lionel still pays tax, and like your mum is totally dependant and in a wheelchair.

Seems wrong somehow.
 

Kayla

Registered User
May 14, 2006
621
Kent
Mum is in quite good health, considering her problems and she is only 81. We worry about what happens if the money runs out.
It would be good if more of the bills were paid by the Health Service, so we knew her money would last as long as necessary. After all, whatever money is left in the future, the taxman will take some of it.
It is hard knowing how to manage someone else's money properly so that it earns interest and is still available for them if needed. We had a concern just recently that the rent was late in being paid and that has just been resolved.
Are people thrown out on the streets if their money has run out and social services won't pay? Has anyone actually been in this situation after a number of years of a relative being in care? Would they force a move to cheaper home miles away or an inferior home?
At least there are savings at the moment so we don't need to worry too much just now.
Kayla
 

Lila13

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
1,342
I don't believe they would throw anyone out in the streets but people do sometimes get sent to inferior homes/hospitals further away and without relatives being consulted.
 

Jazzy

Registered User
Jun 3, 2006
34
Derbyshire
Hi Aileen

My mother is entirely self funding and I recently sold her house. She has her state pension, a very small occupational pension from my father plus the higher rate attendance allowance and the medium band nursing contribution. The nursing contribution is paid straight to her nursing home and all the rest straight into her bank account. I receive a monthly invoice from the nusring home which is based on a daily rate, so the amount varies a little from month to month. I then just send them a cheque. I also pay them about £40 to £50 a month to cover things like the hairdressers and the chiropodist. There is a shortfall each month. as her income is less than her outgoings, so I have an amout paid into her bank account each month from her capital to cover that. I have tried to invest the money from her house wisely so it will last as long as possible. But who knows...

I hope this helps. It's just my experience.

Best wishes
Jazzy
 

Claire

Registered User
Mar 31, 2004
88
Coventry
Hi

My mum's pensions still go into her bank account, and I receive a monthly invoice from Social Services. It has never been suggested that her monies go directly to them.

Take care

Claire
 

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
This is my concern being younger and i rely on my husbands pension i've been told i get half of his pension if this happens. This will put me in problems to pay bills. Well i've worked it out that i can pay the bills but will have nothing for food. I am trying to save the little carers allowance up to help me if this happens. Its a big worry for me. I also don't want to go on benifits as i've had enough of the system.
 

mocha

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
176
85
Lancs, England
funding charges

Hi, Thanks for the replies , I think we are nearest to the comments you make Chip. It is different than when it is a parent or other relative. Because we have always called our income joint. Looking at the breakdown of charges(we are not fully self funding) They are going to take all his Government Pension and half his Occupational pension leaving me with almost exactly the same amount to run the house and pay all the bills.
It makes me very sad when I think of the hours he worked and the AVC's he paid to give us a better work's pension (AVC's=Advanced Voluntary Contributions)
I'm just waiting to hear from them until then the money stays in the bank.
We will not be paying the N.H. direct.
Bye for now
Aileen
 

chip

Registered User
Jul 19, 2005
400
Scotland
It makes me sad too and angry, at the thought of how much tax, NI, council tax and occupation pension my husband has paid and me too. And the tax he is still paying. And the charge we are now getting because he is ill and of working age. He is getting taxed because invalidity benifit is taxable. I don't understand how a benifit is taxable why give it in the first place? Is this illness not bad enough with the extra cost we all have without taxing the sick. If we are paying council tax are we paying for care twice?
 

suem

Registered User
Jul 1, 2005
61
Worcestershire
This is something that is a big issue for those of us under pension age with older spouses. On my husbands assessment for funding, they take his state pension, DLA care element, half occupation pension. He is left with DLA mobility element. All I get is half his occupation pension (£28 in my case) and I as am working age job seekers allowance. We have a mortgage but would get no help for 6 months. Tell me how I can live on about £83 week? This wouldn't go anywhere to covering the basic bills even with council tax being paid, let alone eat. There is no provision for wifes left to run a home that their husbands have been supporting them in. At pension age it is a little better as there are some extra benefits but this is a big problem.
 

Clive

Registered User
Nov 7, 2004
716
I have been to my MP to complain about the way mum is having here savings taken to pay for her EMI residential home. You should too !!!!!

He tells me that " there is a 12 week disregard of property from the means test for residential accommodation, following a permanent move into a care home, benefiiting around 30,000 people a year."

I think this means the first 12 weeks should be free, though I remember I had to pay for mum.

Hope this is some help
 

noelphobic

Registered User
Feb 24, 2006
3,452
Liverpool
Clive said:
I have been to my MP to complain about the way mum is having here savings taken to pay for her EMI residential home. You should too !!!!!

He tells me that " there is a 12 week disregard of property from the means test for residential accommodation, following a permanent move into a care home, benefiiting around 30,000 people a year."

I think this means the first 12 weeks should be free, though I remember I had to pay for mum.

Hope this is some help
I think the 12 week disregard means that the first 12 weeks would be free provdied the resident's other savings aren't over the threshold for free care. For instance, if your property was worth £1m but you only had £10k or so in other assets then the first 12 weeks would be free. However, if your property was worth £50k but your other assets were worth £30k then the first 12 weeks would NOT be free, as your other assets would be taken into account and would be over the threshold.

However, the 30,000 people that your MP talks about (if his figures are accurate) would start paying for their care after 12 weeks so I can't see that anyone is doing them any massive favours!
 

Clive

Registered User
Nov 7, 2004
716
Thanks Noelphobic

The figure of 30,000 people a year benefiting from this policy comes from a letter to my MP signed by a health minister so it must be correct, mustn’t it ????

It is part of a 5 page letter telling me of all the benefits we get from the Government… though mum with her Alzheimer’s qualifies for none.

You are absolutely right in what you say.

The whole thing is just a lottery.

If you have a large health minister's pension you can pay your health care from the monthly pension cheque leaving house and savings untouched.
No house or savings then health related care is freeish. (You give up a large proportion of your pension).
Large house and no savings then you get 12 weeks free care.
Small house and some savings, possible from your late partner’s life insurance or if you had downsized the house, then you pay from day one.


Whilst 12 weeks free health care is not fantastic it still represents £7,000 that has been taken from mum’s purse at a time when she cannot defend herself. Mum and dad could have bought a nice car or had a holiday with the money.

At a time when all your emotions and efforts are focused on the one with Alzheimer’s you do not need the added strain of knowing that your loved one is being treated unfairly.
 

christine_batch

Registered User
Jul 31, 2007
3,388
Buckinghamshire
The Law stinks!

Firstly when Peter went into Care Home not my decision. I was not told by the useless Social Worker that I would have to pay. So along comes Pension Credit. I was told my husband was entitled in his own right P.C. Low and behold, because of Incapacity Benefit, his £41 per month pension from the Council, he was 40p over the Goverment figures. Then the Mobility Component £160 was stopped. When I phoned them, I was informed they had to check what home he is in, although they already had that information and they would have to confirm it with the Council. Asking how long it would take - 15-16 weeks. Then the woman on the other end said you should not rely on Benefit money to pay for mortgage, live on ! I was furious and said he is 62 now and did not ask to get Alzheimers. Also Pension Credit sent me a letter deducting £50 per week off of my money. The reason given "I am classed as single" I was beside myself. We live in daily fear for that terrible news about our loved ones.
I am registered disabled, have been for 21 years. Whilst things are sorted out my daughter said you can have a break from paying mortgage. On checking C & G I was told I have always over paid and I need not pay mortgage for 6 months. I just sat and cried. I have contacted Alzheimers Society highlighting the plight of the under 65's. The stupid woman from Pension Credit when she came to my home said "Well you have a little more than most because you are disabled. I replied I would rather have good health and not be in daily pain. Over 65 you are mortgage free. Ho! I didn't see it that way. There is a lot of insensative people who think they know it all and know nothing. GOVERMENT SHOULD LISTEN TO CARERS EXPERIENCES/ Christine
 

Margaret W

Registered User
Apr 28, 2007
3,725
North Derbyshire
Car Home fees

We have just embarked on this, and despite me being an accountant (not in practice I hasted to add), I have learnt a lot. So if I have learnt a lot, people without an accounting background are going to learn a lot more.

Your Social Worker will explain it all to you. Alternatively, I have a chap coming from Help the Aged next week who is going to explain it all to me again.

Brucie will go mad at me if I say too much, but basically, unless your relative has little savings and has no property to sell (or keep), they will probably end up paying for most of their care themselves, until the money reaches about £21,500.

So you need advice on how to invest any monies to enable them to last as long as possible.

If your relative has little savings and no house, the SS scheme will enable them to live in a home costing around £350 a week (varies with area), by taking their pension etc. and topping it up. But if you want your relative to live in a home which costs more, you, or someone else, will have to pay the difference. That could be £100 a week or more, depending on your choice of care home.

If your relative has a house, but savings of below £21,500, the SS will also top up care home fees to about £350 a week. Whatever they top up will be free for the first 12 weeks, then any further weeks will be listed as a "charge" against the property when it is sold. It is interest free, so worth considering, but an empty house still costs money to upkeep. You will still have to pay the difference if your relative is in a home which costs more than the £350 a week.

The really annoying things are that if a relative has saving, they may well be paying tax on them, and using the net figure to pay for the care home. This seems wrong, and I urge you to write to Alastair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer to complain about this. The other niggle is that if your own estate is likely to be subject to Inheritance Tax when you die, any payment you make towards your relative's upkeep which is taken out of your capital, could result in an Inheritance tax charge when you did. Another point to take up with Alastair Darling.

And yes, in answer to someone's question, if you can't afford to pay for the extra for a care home, and the SS is only prepared to top up to £350, you will have to move your relative to a cheaper home.

Re Attendance Allowance, your relative won't get it for any period when the SS are paying part of the care home fees, so the loan against the house will be that much bigger.

In short, if your relative is poor they will have to go into whatever home the SS will pay for, whether you like it or not (but there is a get out if the home does not provide the appropriate care - and you can ask for an assessment of that), but if your relative is partially well off, or has a house, you will end up paying for the majority of the care out of their income and capital until it all falls below £21,500.

Don't think I have misled anyone there, Brucie. Leave it to you!

Regards

Margaret
 

Margaret W

Registered User
Apr 28, 2007
3,725
North Derbyshire
Care Home costs

I think we should all take with a pinch of salt what politicians etc. say. Unless they are directly involved in the calculation of care home fees, they haven't a clue what they are talking about, and can easily mislead people. There is no blanket 12-week disregard where all fees are payable by the SS, this only applies if your relative is in a care home which does not charge any more than the SS limit. And if any of you have found one of those which you think is good, please let us all know, cos I haven't found one that I would allow my mother to live in.

Regards

Margaret
 

Helena

Registered User
May 24, 2006
715
As I have said repeatedly no one with Alzheimers should have to pay for care

They are entitled to Continuing Care and since nothing has changed in the NHS Bill from the day it was 1st set up the Government are in breach forcing anyone to pay for care

see www.************

Until everyone fights for this nothing will change because the Government think they can get away with acting illegally