1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

Patience maketh the woman!

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Lucille, Dec 22, 2006.

  1. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Dear all
    Had a really bad conversation with mum last night.

    She's recently drawn out large sums of money from her bank account (within the space of 24 hours). I called her to check all was (as OK as could be expected) and fobbed her off with some story that the bank had called me to check the withdrawals. (I have an unregistered EPA and access to her bank accounts). I also discovered from my brother that she 'gave' him £100 because 'he looked like he needed it'. My concern was not that she gave him the money but that her reasoning behind it seemed somewhat bizarre. What of anyone else who 'looks like they need it'?!

    So, immediately she starts yelling down the phone. Telling me to mind my own business. That I'm ruining her life. Interfering. Her money is nothing to do with me and she can spend her money when she wants on what she wants as there's nothing wrong with her. That I want to put her in a 'sanatorium'. All this was at volume that was exceptionally LOUD :eek: She told me she wanted a peaceful Christmas and wanted to spend it on her own. Mm, right, so she can eat cheese sandwiches for days on end (after scraping off the fur coat that a lot of her food seems to be wearing these days)!! :confused:

    She bizarrely said: "we don't have the conversations we used to have". I say 'bizarrely' as of course, this is true. How can she remember we don't have those conversations and yet not have any conception of the reason why?

    Although I felt hurt by what she said, I also felt that I just couldn't be ar*ed with her! Of course I care and will continue to do so, but I'm not - for the forseeable future anyway - going to flog myself to death like I have been doing for the past 18 months. What's the point?

    I'm assuming that she won't remember the conversation as the last time this happened (I disappeared with a book and a glass of - very pleasant white wine - into the kitchen), she came in and wanted to know why I was avoiding her. This was after I'd wrapped up all her presents/sorted Xmas cards whilst she sat there and read the paper.

    How awful that this disease (Vascular Dementia) makes the sufferer so selfish and unaware and at other times almost 'normal'.

    Hey ho. Onward and upward. Am going off to finish MY Christmas shopping!
    Hope you all have a peaceful Christmas. No doubt some of us will be visiting TP over the holiday for our dose of sanity amid the madness!

    Sorry for the rambling post. Just wanted to get it off my chest!
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,719
    Kent
    Dear Lucille, If it`s any consolation, you have my sympathy. This obssession with money and claim to ownership of it, seems to be the last stand for independence, with Alz./ Vas. Dem. sufferers.
    Unfortunately, although they seem to lose the concept of the value of money, they are not yet able to relinquish control. It`s a difficult period, but one we all seem to have to go through.
     
  3. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Dear Lucille, thank you! Good to know I'm not the only one who's 'been there' (and quite often just recently!) ..... then next I'm a blubbering wreck 'cause I love her and want to do everything I can for her.....:eek:

    After yesterday's 'delights' - had my head well and truly bitten off, chewed up and spat out by 'her' this morning - and guess what? It was because I challenged her about the cash she is bandying about...... On reflection (and having just read Nada's comment here) ... I guess even if mum couldn't grasp what I was saying or that I was saying it for her benefit she could sense the 'challenge' ... and silly me, forgot that mum is ALWAYS right.....;)

    Well, took on board some of the brilliant advice and support given to me here - and walked away ....(only temporarily of course!)......

    You've made me really think about 'selfishness' .... on the one hand mum seems very selfish (or unaware) in terms of rarely appreciating what anyone (mostly me) does for her ... and yet when it comes to money she has become more and more generous ... (ridiclously lavish pressies for some people this Christmas).....???

    Sure someone will come up with an explanation on that one....

    Love Karen, x

    (PS: Trust that Christmas shopping includes copious amounts of very pleasant white wine for someone who deserves it!!! :) )
     
  4. Lila13

    Lila13 Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    1,342
    My mother last year gave me the remaining bits of cash left in the house (I wrote it all down in the log book for my brother) saying "you can't expect me to understand economics". Then went round to the local shop where she couldn't buy anything because "my children have taken all my money". Of course that went all round the neighbourhood, and there are probably still some people around there who think she had wicked children who stole her money and starved her.

    Lila
     
  5. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Lucille

    The very first bit of the brain to be affected in Vascular Dementia is to do with Money and accounts ...........You are detailing everything we went through too to the letter

    The huge mountain of a problem my Mother has left behind her for this very reason is proof

    You need to jump on registering that EPA fast but also put a stop on her cash card etc

    Go and explain to the bank whats happening and get their help

    As you are reigistering the EPA they should co operate
     
  6. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    I look at it this way.

    If I were on the deck of Titanic and my feet were already wet - would I start worrying about paying the milkman?
     
  7. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    In which case, Brucie, are we not the lifeboat crew offering them survival (if only on a financial level) and finding we are getting life jackets thrown back in our faces at times? ... Ouch! It hurts.....

    Love, Karen, x
     
  8. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    absolutely... and that is almost the hardest part, to be doing something that is hard for us to do [in all ways], yet they can't appreciate even a part of it.
     
  9. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Oh how I wish I was back to those days when mum would
    driving me crazy with frustration my own emotion to the whole life changing situation ,



    Littile did I know that part all soon passes,Christmas Responsibility no man to share it with no mum or dad , I feel like an orphan , in a wired kind of way is all my reasonability now , mum just sits there letting the whole pass her, then other times she is just trying to be that people she use to be is just trying so hard to be the woman she use to be that’s all she wants and I can’t give that to her and it just wants to make me cry …..My point is enjoy it , recognized it enjoy it , because this time next year , who know what stage they be in .
     
  10. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Thanks all, for your replies!

    Have just finished wrapping my presents, picked up meat for Christmas and am now going to fly around the house like something possessed before mum's arrival! You see, I still want the place to look nice for her!

    Helena, I know I need to register the EPA ... but as Karen has pointed out on her posts on this subject recently, it's taking away mum's last bit of financial independence. I know once I do this, I think her mental health will deteriorate even more. However, if I don't, so will mine. Also, I realise that I have to keep enough money in her bank account to cover her outgoings. If she continues spending like she is at the moment, then it will all go.

    Lila13: Mum has already started squirreling money around and about. I also had quite a saga with her debit card a few weeks ago. How the bank didn't just say STOP! then, I don't know. Ah well. It's ironic, as a few days ago I posted on here about my adapting to mum and I thought I was doing quite well. To a certain extent I believe that - when I'm with her - but often now when we talk on the telephone she's like a bomb waiting to go off. All very sad.

    Thanks, again, all of you. Brucie, I loved the Titanic analogy - at times, we all must feel like we're drowning! ;)
     
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #11 Margarita, Dec 22, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2006

    If anything like my mother , she won’t because her energy will be directed at you, making you feel guilty , she tell every one that I’ve got all her money all her money , pays me to look after her and if I don’t do what she says or gets what she wants, I won’t get all her money to spend, while I am thinking wishing that this was not happeing , what is my mother on , but I do not feel that she deteriorated more during that time , because I took over of her finances Nothing you do in taking finances away will make your mother worse , the only thing that can do that its the disease itself that what is controling every thing not I but that just my story with my mother , at the end she knows deep down that she could not cope , but hell did we argue about it , now that keep her motivated in her mind and she still does to this day, just me that has come to team with it.

    Now again I say that’s just me my story every one with a love one is at a different stage not only the love one, but the person who care for them. I would say now that my attitude towards the whole AZ has change as my mum go on to different stages.

    Good luck, I know what a worry it was
     
  12. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Thanks, Margarita.

    I suppose what I meant was that she is still able to go shopping/get on a bus/get herself back and live fairly independently; albeit with rather full wardrobes and kitchen cupboards because of her purchasing power! :) Her going out shopping is part of her routine and so, I feel that if I take away her ability to pay for things when she goes out, she will have to either stay in or wait for me to visit to give her money. Neither situation is ideal as I want her to retain her sense of freedom for as long as she can. However, my getting telephone calls at 7.30pm saying that she isn't home (and therefore has missed her medication) is rather worrying!

    I guess, as you say, the top and bottom of the the whole financial affair is that I have to come to terms with it - the sooner the better.

    And how do you spell prevarication? ... SLOWLY! ;) ;)
     
  13. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    as I look up the meaning of prevarication on Answer. com it also says




    The august tribunal of the skies, where no prevarication shall avail. lol only jokeing hust my humour , but it does say that :eek: ;)
     
  14. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Blimey, Margarita!

    That sounds very profound! I wonder what it means !! It's an education visiting this site, isn't it.

    Just spoke to mum. She has no recollection of the phone call last night. She was in tears, I was in tears. I said we needed to give each other a telephonic hug. I expect BT would charge us for it tho' ;)
     
  15. MJK

    MJK Registered User

    Oct 22, 2004
    54
    Hi,

    We've just opened a "Cash card" account for my Mum, with Barclays because her regular bank had been very unhelpful. We've got a POA which we have just begun the registration process for (and Barclays are aware of this). They have been extremely helpful and understanding. With the cash card account Mum will be able to get money from cash machines, or her local branch, there is no cheque book, and no possibility of going overdrawn. We will link this account to her current account (which she has no access to and is entirely controlled by her attorneys) and keep it topped up to a sensible level. Hopefully this will avoid (or at least limit) money going missing, wild extravagance etc, without taking away her independence. We'll see how it goes anyway - no doubt there will be pitfalls I've not even thought of!!

    It seems that banks vary hugely in how understanding they are, but it may just come down to the individual you deal with.
     
  16. Dave W

    Dave W Registered User

    Jul 3, 2005
    268
    Bucks
    Get the bank to do the work :)

    Hi Lucille

    oh, I've been through this one. Wouldn't buy me a newspaper but tried to give the neighbour 500 quid for cutting the (tiny) lawn. Yes, it's a control thing and a loss of independence - which it's easy to understand anyone would fight against.

    As the bank are co-operating already, can you ask them to set a limit (per week) on how much she can withdraw? Or, as has been suggested, run two accounts. Set up a weekly modest transfer from one (that she can't access) to the other (that she can). She gets 'control', and you get a moment of peace. But do watch out for secret stashes of money - we found nearly £2000 over the space of couple of weeks - tucked under cupboards, in the base of equipment, all sorts of weird places. Hidden anyway and then totally forgotten.

    Good luck, and remember to take a break in the other room with a glass of wine once in a while - it's your Christmas too, and you deserve to enjoy it.

    Dave
     
  17. Lila13

    Lila13 Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    1,342
    Yes, I wish I were back to those days too.

    Lila


     
  18. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    I can relate to this one, found thousands when we cleared out mum's flat, mostly neatly hidden behind old pictures, which were on their way to the tip until the back came off one of them, also in shoes, glasses cases etc. etc. and she used to offer me a £1 to cover the cost of a 'tank' of petrol because I used to travel 60 miles each trip, and used to go to see her several times a week.

    My son took her out Christmas shopping and had to practically surgically remove £10 from her for the 10 presents she was going to buy............ cannot wait for Santa to come!!!!
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #19 Margarita, Dec 24, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2006
    lol @ cate
    As I sing
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Way up high
    And the dreams that you dreamed of
    Once in a lullaby ii ii iii
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Santa is flying right up high
    with all my dreams , that I have long said good buy to .


    love that song http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/i/israelkamakawiwoole6157/somewhereovertherainbow239745.html
     
  20. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Thanks MJK. I will look into the dual bank account. It seems like a great idea.

    Picked mum up yesterday - found some of the money (in a drawer). The fridge was bulging with food - everything she'd need for Christmas dinner, except she's not spending it at home ...:( Had to throw loads away, bring some here, some went to my brother. We all have enough sprouts to sink a battleship!

    Also discovered that the chemist had put both doses of her Alzheimer's meds into one section of the dosette box!! 12mg all in one go :eek: And that the carers haven't been weighing her as we agreed with the SW. She has dropped another 3lb since I last weighed her so she's hovering around 7st:( Hopefully she'll put some weight back on this week.

    Dave, I will definitely find time for a little drinkette (or two);) I went for a run this morning (in prep for the food and drink onslaught) so feel very self righteous!

    Everyone, have a good Christmas. No doubt we will 'speak' here in TP, over the holiday.

    Best wishes and thank you so much for your words of wisdom. As usual it's much appreciated!
     

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