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Panorama - Undercover: Elderly Care

mike antony

Registered User
Apr 14, 2012
49
how prevalent is this ??? you got to believe its rare just saw panorama

the manager wrote piece saying positivley moving forward
jargo jargon
scary thought must be that if everybody put in cameras we would huundred of hours of footage of badly paid staff treating residents like cattle

people with dementia arent the easiest to deal with only yesterday one of them called staff lady ****** I was so shocked
shouting screaming saying nasty things to each other and staff its sadly an awfully hard low paying job we cant be surprised that isolated incidents of indifference occur
dont watch if of a nervous dispositon
 

march hare

Registered User
Apr 4, 2012
10
SOUTH GLOS
panorama

Did watch it and am now crying for that poor woman but also for my Mum

Jude
hi jude
managed to sit through it crying my eyes out
makes me scared in case rich ever needs care home
we dont know what goes on behind closed doors
im going to keep him here as long as im able.
best wishes

march hare x
 

JPG1

Account Closed
Jul 16, 2008
3,396
Well done indeed.

We have to learn a new way of communicating. Measly-mealy-mouthed words won't cut the mustard any more.

We have to speak as we find - and to be allowed to speak as we find.

For all we know, everyone who has been fortunate enough to find a fantastic care home, like Granny G has found, may be matched by someone who has had the opposite experience. No disrespect there - just a reality check.

We need perhaps to forget about those who haven't found the same words that we may need to find to promote the struggle to improve care.

Unless you've been there and walked the walk of neglect and abuse, you have no right to deny others their right to speak up, to speak out and to demand better care.

No, Kassy, this is not an isolated case. You know that and I know that. We must continue to speak out and to speak out and to speak out on behalf of those who can't do that for themselves.

Don't be fobbed off - don't be scared off - just be brave enough to speak out. Loudly and clearly.
 

TinaT

Registered User
Sep 27, 2006
7,095
Bolton
It has absolutely broke my heart! The poor poor lady suffering so badly and unable to even explain how she was being treated.

The warning signs were there, mum with bruises, staff brought in from other countries specifically for the job, a daughter worried and concerned for her mother's welfare, and yet the police at the end said they would not advise relatives to take secret filming????? I have no doubt whatsoever that the poor lady would still be residing in that home and suffering the same abuse if she hadn't got such undeniable evidence from the secret filming!!!

How do you change such an underlying mind set of disinterest in the job and abuse of our elderly when the central management of the company in question were fully prepared to let four of the staff involved continue to work there??? How could management write a letter to the daughter stating that abuse had not taken place. What more proof would they need I wonder in order to change what was happening?

Too many complaints are swept under the carpet, never reach the ears of social workers, the CQC etc., and when such complaints are heard, there is too much 'protect our backs' - 'the care home are pwerful and have lawyers' 'we haven't enough proof' etc., etc., culture amongst Local Authorities, social workers, the CQC. Why did the doctors, district nurses, visiting hairdresser, and the thousand and one other visitors at that care home not see or even sense the underlying neglect and bad care?

I myself have visited a home where I was told by relatives on the general frail and elderly section, 'My mother is happy here and I'm happy because I know she is safe'. yet when I visited the dementia unit I saw for myself that residents were very far from safe and well cared for. If relatives continue to only see to their own resident's wellbeing and don't notice, or ignore, what is going on around them, are they contributing to the culture we have seen on tv tonight? If they did complain would they be labelled as troublemakers and told that they could only complain about any care of their own relative and not of others?

I submitted a report to the LA (the main contractor for paying for beds at the home I visited), I also sent a copy of the same report to the CQC. Only after a complaint about the dementia unit by a relative some time later did the CQC decide to inspect. The time from my report being received up to the CQC inspection was a further six months. Six months when the poor care I witnessed continued!!

I'm honestly feeling sick at the sight of such abuse. It is even more shocking to think that this must be going on somewhere to some other elderly person, right now this minute, as I'm typing this.

Thank God that I'm absolutely sure that my husband is being cared for by kind, gentle and well meaning carers. How do I know this? Well I've been visiting on an almost daily basis, at all hours of the day (and night) for four years and I've watched not only the care of my own relative but also the care of all the other residents. I know that staff genuinely care for all of the residents as if they were their own flesh and blood.

xxTinaT
 

outofmydepth

Registered User
Feb 28, 2012
103
Disgusting behavioural from people who call themselves carers ,shocking and it terrifies me that anything like this could happen to my mum ,and we might even miss it ...................................am heartbroken right now for her mum and all elderly who could be suffering like this
 

march hare

Registered User
Apr 4, 2012
10
SOUTH GLOS
panorama

the manager wrote piece saying positivley moving forward
jargo jargon
scary thought must be that if everybody put in cameras we would huundred of hours of footage of badly paid staff treating residents like cattle

people with dementia arent the easiest to deal with only yesterday one of them called staff lady ****** I was so shocked
shouting screaming saying nasty things to each other and staff its sadly an awfully hard low paying job we cant be surprised that isolated incidents of indifference occur
dont watch if of a nervous dispositon
hi is it an isolated incident
how do we know i appreciate it can be a difficult :and very often low paid job
but you choose where you work!of course they can be difficult at times.

but that is the condition.they are not responsible for their behaviour
we have had a home near us closed down.because of abuse its made me think
no matter how hard it is i will keep my husband here as long as i am able.


march hare.
 

mike antony

Registered User
Apr 14, 2012
49
i agree it should be the absolute last option to put a loved one in a ch
however i prefer to believe in the goodness of people
nobody does that job for the money you have to care
but maybe some people dont care and just really want the money
how many of us would do for strangers what we do for our families

you have to hope its isolated case
 

TinaT

Registered User
Sep 27, 2006
7,095
Bolton
I've already posted this on another thread...

It has absolutely broke my heart! The poor poor lady suffering so badly and unable to even explain how she was being treated.

The warning signs were there, mum with bruises, staff brought in from other countries specifically for the job, a daughter worried and concerned for her mother's welfare, and yet the police at the end said they would not advise relatives to take secret filming????? I have no doubt whatsoever that the poor lady would still be residing in that home and suffering the same abuse if she hadn't got such undeniable evidence from the secret filming!!!

How do you change such an underlying mind set of disinterest in the job and abuse of our elderly when the central management of the company in question were fully prepared to let four of the staff involved continue to work there??? How could management write a letter to the daughter stating that abuse had not taken place. What more proof would they need I wonder in order to change what was happening?

Too many complaints are swept under the carpet, never reach the ears of social workers, the CQC etc., and when such complaints are heard, there is too much 'protect our backs' - 'the care home are pwerful and have lawyers' 'we haven't enough proof' etc., etc., culture amongst Local Authorities, social workers, the CQC. Why did the doctors, district nurses, visiting hairdresser, and the thousand and one other visitors at that care home not see or even sense the underlying neglect and bad care?

I myself have visited a home where I was told by relatives on the general frail and elderly section, 'My mother is happy here and I'm happy because I know she is safe'. yet when I visited the dementia unit I saw for myself that residents were very far from safe and well cared for. If relatives continue to only see to their own resident's wellbeing and don't notice, or ignore, what is going on around them, are they contributing to the culture we have seen on tv tonight? If they did complain would they be labelled as troublemakers and told that they could only complain about any care of their own relative and not of others?

I submitted a report to the LA (the main contractor for paying for beds at the home I visited), I also sent a copy of the same report to the CQC. Only after a complaint about the dementia unit by a relative some time later did the CQC decide to inspect. The time from my report being received up to the CQC inspection was a further six months. Six months when the poor care I witnessed continued!!

I'm honestly feeling sick at the sight of such abuse. It is even more shocking to think that this must be going on somewhere to some other elderly person, right now this minute, as I'm typing this.

Thank God that I'm absolutely sure that my husband is being cared for by kind, gentle and well meaning carers. How do I know this? Well I've been visiting on an almost daily basis, at all hours of the day (and night) for four years and I've watched not only the care of my own relative but also the care of all the other residents. I know that staff genuinely care for all of the residents as if they were their own flesh and blood.

xxTinaT

Wlould it be possible for the moderators to merge the two threads?

xxTinaT
 

JPG1

Account Closed
Jul 16, 2008
3,396
i agree it should be the absolute last option to put a loved one in a ch
however i prefer to believe in the goodness of people
nobody does that job for the money you have to care
but maybe some people dont care and just really want the money
how many of us would do for strangers what we do for our families

you have to hope its isolated case
There's no way that this is an isolated case. Absolutely no chance.


People are imported from the Phillipines, via assorted 'so-called colleges' and they provide a bank account with £50 added to it on arrival. They give the sad and needy incomers a few vouchers to spend down the local supermarket. Then comes the contract which is often a one-way ticket to being ensnared into a contract that allows no rights of employment, no means to speak, just a threatening contract.

It's all available on the internet if you really want to know how desperate people are enticed and attracted to work in the 'care industry' in the UK. It is disgraceful and disgusting. Those poor and needy workers are exploited from day one onwards.
They don't all always have caring instincts by nature, as was evidenced in the programme this evening. They are being exploited as they exploit and abuse our elders. (Not always, but often, and sometimes once enough is once enough and once more than enough.)
 

TinaT

Registered User
Sep 27, 2006
7,095
Bolton
I've just checked and Jennifer was 'on to it' whilst I was typing and has merged the two threads. Thanks Jennifer.

xxTinaT
 

Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
67
Hampshire
The absolute reality is that abuse of people with dementia is not just going on in care homes it's going on in a lot of family's own homes. Why? Because the illness is not like any other. Some of the people doing the caring just don't "get it". Even some trained nurses don't "get it". They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.

I'm not shocked by this programme at all - I am sickened to the core because I know it is reality for many unfortunate people trapped in a desperate environment of unawareness and lack of love, empathy and understanding.

The ones that are really suffering are the ones without family and friends watching out for them.

I wonder how many homes are like Ash Court in Kentish Town? I hope this Panorama has at least brought the reality home. But how many are too frightened to face the possible reality?
 

grove

Registered User
Aug 24, 2010
7,723
North Yorkshire
I did not watch it ! !

Hello Everybody , Did not watch it but there was a disscusion about it on Radio 4 Today Programme & that was as "fair " as it could be

Thank you TinaT for "Posting " the "Link " to the C Q C response made interesting reading

Love Grove x
 

jan.s

Registered User
Sep 20, 2011
7,353
68
I watched the programme and was shocked at the treatment of Maria. the poor soul was totally in their hands with no means of communication. It made me sad, but even more it made me angry.

I find it hard to believe that these people thought they were caring; were they trained? I agree that carers are paid a low wage, which, bearing in mind the cost of a CH, is disgraceful - but they take the work knowing what is involved and how much they'll get paid. Maybe it's about time there was a registration process for carers, with regular training.

I am sure there are many thousands of great carers out there, who enjoy working with people and don't have a cruel bone in their body, but once again it is the few who drag the others down.

My husband has just gone into a CH - the manager is very much hands on, and very aware of what's happening. I visit daily, and will continue to do so, varying my times. I do know that the carers receive regular training.

At least the programme had a good ending for Maria, so it does show that there are good carers too.

Jan
 

JackyS

Registered User
Mar 14, 2010
175
Cheshire
my first post

ok, my first post - and it has to be about this awful programme. I couldn't watch it, having seen a bit of the video on breakfast TV.

My Mum has Alzheimers and vascular dementia. She is still living independently and i am doing my best to help her - but I know the time is now coming quickly when she needs more care than I can give, as I work full time.

But, if I found a home (that we could afford, but that's another story) and the same thing happened to her as to this poor lady, i would really struggle to forgive myself - and I would probably attack any relevant careworkers (if i could get my hands on them) and end up in prison myself.

So, my question is this - should i give up my job to look after my Mum? Or, is there some way i can shout and lobby and push and push to try and get the Government to bring in the changes that are needed to help our vulnerable and elderly population? But if horrendous stories like this don't force the government to make the changes, what chance one more poor lone voice?

Think I've just answered my own question - so, just got to find a way to tell my husband that we won't be able to afford half the mortgage and that the lady who still looks like my Mum, but is acting less and less like her needs to come and live with us. Easy x
 

jan.s

Registered User
Sep 20, 2011
7,353
68
ok, my first post - and it has to be about this awful programme. I couldn't watch it, having seen a bit of the video on breakfast TV.

My Mum has Alzheimers and vascular dementia. She is still living independently and i am doing my best to help her - but I know the time is now coming quickly when she needs more care than I can give, as I work full time.

But, if I found a home (that we could afford, but that's another story) and the same thing happened to her as to this poor lady, i would really struggle to forgive myself - and I would probably attack any relevant careworkers (if i could get my hands on them) and end up in prison myself.

So, my question is this - should i give up my job to look after my Mum? Or, is there some way i can shout and lobby and push and push to try and get the Government to bring in the changes that are needed to help our vulnerable and elderly population? But if horrendous stories like this don't force the government to make the changes, what chance one more poor lone voice?

Think I've just answered my own question - so, just got to find a way to tell my husband that we won't be able to afford half the mortgage and that the lady who still looks like my Mum, but is acting less and less like her needs to come and live with us. Easy x
Welcome to TP.
I think we need to remember that not all Care Homes are bad. In fact many address the problems of dementia far better than we can do ourselves.
 

outofmydepth

Registered User
Feb 28, 2012
103
And this along with an incident at my mums first CH is why i would never trust the CQC or any of it's so called reports
 

JackyS

Registered User
Mar 14, 2010
175
Cheshire
Welcome to TP.
I think we need to remember that not all Care Homes are bad. In fact many address the problems of dementia far better than we can do ourselves.
Thanks, I guess I am having a bleak day! Is there anywhere on here where members can recommend care homes that they found worked well for their loved one?
 

TinaT

Registered User
Sep 27, 2006
7,095
Bolton
Jacky, please believe me, there are some very good care homes. My own husband who I love more than life itself, is residing in a very good care home.

Your job when the time comes, will be to find them! And when you do find one and if your mother is a resident there, to be actively involved with her care. You sound like the sort of person who would be alert to any signs of poor care and not afraid of complaining loudly and long until you are happy.

However horrifying the thought of having your mother residing in a care home is in view of tonight's programme, remember that it was her vigilant daughter who brought it to light!

Do your homework, find the best care home you can, and visit as often as you can: visit at least twice, or more if you can, watch how staff interact with each other and with residents, watch if the manager ever actually leaves the office and interracts with staff and residents, have a meal at the home and eat the food yourself. Meal times are a good period to watch as often staff are very hard pressed to care for high dependancy residents at this busy time. Do your homework!

Be vigilent and active if your mother does go into the care home, especially if she becomes immobile and unable to communicate with you and remember, caring for a person doesn't end when they go into residential care. You will still be a very important 'player' in the care of your mother.

xxTinaT
 
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Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
67
Hampshire
Thanks, I guess I am having a bleak day! Is there anywhere on here where members can recommend care homes that they found worked well for their loved one?
Good question. We're not allowed to do this on the public TP forum. There is nowhere on the internet that I've come across that allows families to recommend or name and shame care homes. The CQC is useless.

PS Edited to add......You can of course voice your opinions on Facebook!!!! Being a relatively naive internet user I had no idea about this until recently but have discovered lots of "Voices" on FB. Controversial yes, helpful yes!!
 
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