Panorama tv programme

ElaineMaul

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Jan 29, 2005
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I notice on the Alzheimer's Web site at:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/News_and_Campaigns/Campaigning/accesstocontinuingcare.htm

That the society is encouraging people to write to their local newspapers. It would certainly also be 'nice' to write about the care review to Mr Blair, asking if he's going to put some money where his mouth was in 1997 re the quote Helena mentioned.

Who else do you think should be on a list of people to write to?

Of course, I have no idea if these people really take any notice of letters they receive? But what other avenues are there to take?

Elaine
 

BazCare

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Jul 2, 2006
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Surrey
Following this program last week I was having a quite heated debate with a good friend of mine. I was arguing about how it was very unfair it was that after working all his life from the age of 15, when he left school until he was into his 60's; never once claimed unemployment benefits because he was in continuous employment throughout, except for the time when he answered the call that ‘YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU’ in 1939 and went off to serve king and country, he now finds himself at the age of 87, having to face the prospect of selling his home and possessions in order to pay for his care if and when the time comes when we can no longer assist him to live at home.

My friend in the main agreed with me but then hit me with a ‘googly’. What if your dad, after all those years in work retired as a multi millionaire, would I still feel that it was right for his care to be paid for by the NHS?

We agreed to leave that one on hold.

How would you counter this argument?
 
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shauny

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Oct 27, 2005
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north-east england
who pays?

Hi All, i'l throw something in. A lot of discussion goes on about the concept of who or what should pay for long-term care. Should the individual pay? should the state pay? i.e. taxpayers, should relatives pay? in some countries i believe they are asked to contribute. As i have said elsewhere on TP successive governments have put there heads in there hands and hoped that the sick and the elderly would die off quietly. As things stand society has a mish mash of payments, charges, postcode differences. I know the bloody idiots have put out another consultation god knows how many times in the last 20 years but there u are. I am beginning to wonder aloud if anybody in Whitehall has a clue about life outside of there cosy hole. Anyway im a betting person and i wager that sadly nothing will change. Shauny.
 

Lila13

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Feb 24, 2006
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Perhaps they should just raise the lower limit of savings you are allowed to keep, so that the really rich would have to pay?

BazCare said:
My friend in the main agreed with me but then hit me with a ‘googly’. What if your dad, after all those years in work retired as a multi millionaire, would I still feel that it was right for his care to be paid for by the NHS?

We agreed to leave that one on hold.

How would you counter this argument?
 

Helena

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May 24, 2006
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" perhaps they should raise the savings "limit at which care charges start to bite"

I wonder what you would classify as the really rich though

To me the really rich are those earning over £100K a year but many people including this government would say anyone on over £20K a year

As for savings the current £12K limit is a totally miserly level to assess care home fees on

I do not think anyone with less than the current Inheritance Tax limit of £280K should be forced to pay care home fees

The average semi detached house across majority of the country is now £250K and most of those were bought by our parents generation for £4000 in the 60s

They certainly were not rich people who went without all manner of things to scrape together the deposit to get a mortgage in 1960s for a £4000 home
 

ElaineMaul

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Jan 29, 2005
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Hi Nada,
This probably aught to be on another thread, but I was very impressed that the society's letter generation webpage gives you all the local media (radio and newspapers) based on your postcode. That must be some huge database you have 'behind the scenes'? However, one of the emails for one of my local newspapers was wrong as it 'bounced back' to me. Does the society want to know about these sorts of things so as to be able to update their database?

Also, Nada ...... would you know or be able to suggest a list of 'high and mighty ones' (!) that might 'benefit' :D from a letter??

Elaine
 

ElaineMaul

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Jan 29, 2005
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Also ......... I've just been 'biting the bullet' and reading, in more detail, the consultation document Helena made reference to in an earlier message.
It makes reference to the Health and Social Care Act 2001. This act is very easy to find on the Internet ...... but it is hard reading, being written in legal jargonese. :eek:

I don't suppose anyone knows of a plain english version? (And yes ...... I'm being lazy here! I probably aught to go off and look myself! )

ELaine
 

Helena

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May 24, 2006
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They write everything in "legal jargonise" because they have a thousand ways of getting round it and saying NO
 

Kayla

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May 14, 2006
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Kent
If a millionaire was involved in a road traffic accident, he would get the same treatment in an NHS Emergency Department as a homeless tramp with nothing. Why can't EMI Care and Nursing Home care be free, in the same way as other medical care, but the millionaire already pays higher taxes than a poor person and there could also be some kind of sliding scale of home fees.
Perhaps inheritance tax should be charged to the recipient, rather than on the deceased person's estate. A well off person inheriting £100,000 would pay more tax than a poorer person. People would then be encouraged to spread their wealth around the family, which might help the youngsters gather enough deposit to put on a property of their own.
It is also unfair that self-funders often have to pay higher fees than those funded by the social services. This must mean that they are "subsidising" other patients.
We have been letting Mum's house to help with her fees and using her savings. The longer we wait, the higher the value of the house and when Ebbesfleet International Station is built, house prices are predicted to rise sharply in this part of Kent.
It is bad enough having Mum so ill, without having to worry about her money lasting out.
Kayla
 

noelphobic

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Feb 24, 2006
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Liverpool
BazCare said:
.

My friend in the main agreed with me but then hit me with a ‘googly’. What if your dad, after all those years in work retired as a multi millionaire, would I still feel that it was right for his care to be paid for by the NHS?

We agreed to leave that one on hold.

How would you counter this argument?

Well, if that multi millionaire was lying wounded in the street, the victim of a hit and run driver, or a terrorist, or a mugger, should the ambulance ask for his credit card before they take him to the hospital?

If he was a multi millionaire then, in theory, he would have paid more in taxes than most, and would therefore be entitled to something back in return.

I think that, in practice, this hypothetical multi millionaire would be getting round the clock care at home anyway, because he could afford it. Unless he had a extremely mean family of course!
 

Helena

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May 24, 2006
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IMHE given a load of letters sent to 2 ministers on a different subject in recent months the only replies that do come out after 3 months of waiting are a load of gobbly gook political speak from very minor civil servants whose entire job is to try and stop you getting answers

This government is hell bent on ensuring that democracy simply fails and that even MPs letters to ministers are treated with contempt
 

Kathleen

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Mar 12, 2005
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West Sussex
I have e-mailed my MP and invited him to visit Mum with me and then look me in the eye and tell me exactly why she, along with thousands of others are having to pay for their own care.

I won't hold my breath waiting for a response, but it is worth a try.

All these brick walls are giving me a seroious headache!


Kathleen
 

Brucie

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Jan 31, 2004
12,413
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near London
I won't hold my breath waiting for a response, but it is worth a try.
Yes, do try.

I attended an Alzheimer's Society Lobby at Parliament some time ago. My own MP at the time, James Arbuthnot, apologised not to be there and offered to visit me at home, which he did. As a result I had articles in a number of local newspapers and I was most impressed with the way he approached the whole thing. [picture below shows us looking at Talking Point!]

But on top of that, at the Lobby, by happenstance, I met Jan's MP, Sir George Young, and invited him to visit her at her care home.

He did not know of the place, but made a visit and I introduced him to residents, assistants, the Manager and her Regional Manager. I had a long conversation with him there.

With both MPs I made the case of funding, and of lack of facilities for dementia sufferers - especially Early Onset ones.

Since then, apparently Jan's home provides too good a level of care to be viable and the place is to be demolished to make a larger home with more residents, but less space and fewer facilities. Sir George had notice of this and wrote to me asking for my views, which I have given.

The story continues....

So, you see, it IS worth trying.

It may of course help that both MPs are Conservative and the Opposition will always be keener to impress than the incumbent party. That being said, I will take off my cynical hat and say just how much impressed I was by them.

Having moved area, I have yet to contact my new MP.
 

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Vicki

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Feb 21, 2005
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End charging for care

As one of the Society’s campaigns officers, I read with interest Talking point’s discussion about the injustice of people with dementia having to pay for care that they need as a result of a medical condition. The Society campaigns for an end to charging for care, as called for by the Royal Commission on Long Term Care. This is a key campaigning priority for people with dementia and their carers. As many have pointed out, the artificial divide between health and social care has created an unfair system where people are paying for care that should be provided on the NHS. Last year we held a parliamentary lobby, which hundreds of people attended, to highlight this issue amongst MPs and the government.

Two influential reports recently published by the King’s Fund and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation clearly demonstrate that the current system of funding long term care is not meeting the needs of people with dementia and their carers. We need a public debate across health and social care about what we as a Society can afford to pay. As Talking point demonstrates, there is public support for a debate.

Care service Minister Ivan Lewis has signalled the need for change. He recently said: “We can’t have a credible, mature debate about the future of social care without a debate about who pays for what”.

I would urge you to write or email your MP to lobby the Government to have a public debate on charging of care and draw on your own experiences of the injustice inherent in the present system.
 

jenniferpa

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Jun 27, 2006
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I am very ambivalent about this whole thing. I absolutely agree that private payers should not be subsidising those whose fees are paid by SS. I also can't see how washing dressing feeding etc can be considered social care when it's the strokes, arthritis etc that has meant that my mother can't do these things for herself. If we didn't pay for care, she wouldn't take her meds, feed or wash herself or anything else, so she'd quickly end up in hospital. On the other hand, I do think her savings should be used - I definitely don't think I, as her sole heir, should be entitled to an inheritance if that means the rest of you have to pay for that care via taxes etc. What concerns me is what happens when all the savings are gone. In the unlikely event that she is still in the same place as she is now when that happens, I doubt SS will kick in enough to make it financially viable. My personal bugbear is that those fees we are paying come out of after tax income - I really feel that care home fees should come out of pre-tax income. I feel very fortunate that her "saving nature" and teacher's pension allow her to live in the situation that she does, and I suppose that I can be more relaxed about the whole thing simply because at 89, I doubt that she will live long enough to make the using all her saving issue relevent for her. Also, she doesn't have a spouse, which simplifies the whole thing.

Jennifer
 

Helena

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May 24, 2006
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Jennifer

The other side of this is :------ your Mother paid the same NI and Tax as others

Her prudence and that of others is getting the government out of a hole

They have countless millions being filched by illegal benefit claimants which they do nothing about

When theres proper control over all other areas of the public purse then and only then might i consider peoples savings should be used for care costs
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
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Yes, I know what you're saying but unless things have changed a lot, the taxes and NI contributions that she paid over the years are simply not enough to keep pensions etc coming - these things are essentially being paid for by current wage earners. Cradle to the grave may have been possible in the 40's when life expectancy was less, but now we're keeping people alive for so much longer, I don't see how we can expect this to work indefinitely. Honestly, I don't really see it as getting the government out of a hole, but more about not putting so much of a burden on our children.

Jennifer
 

Helena

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May 24, 2006
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Well like I said while countless thousands of illegal immigrants and benefit scroungers are allowed to milk the system having never ever paid in a penny i see no reason why your mother or mine should be robbed of their savings

Its not really true that we are all living longer ........all 4 of my grandparents were 86 when they died and only one was in care home
My great grandparents died same age

yet my Father died of Alzheimers age 70 and theres my Mother 90 with Vascular Dementia

My children are earning salaries we never dreamt of and have a standard of living far far higher than we did at their age
 

Lila13

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Feb 24, 2006
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My mother died younger than her mother. (for some reason I'd imagined that because "we are all living longer nowadays" she'd have at least 2 more years.)

My niece has a lifestyle and choices we (my mother and I) wouldn't have dreamt of at her age.