Over medication

[alfjess]

Hi All

I thought I would start a new thread.

Firstly to give an update on Mum and secondly to draw attention to over medication.

As some of you will know, Mum was admitted to the psychiatrict ward of our local general hospital, from her care home due to severe agitation.

Whilst in this ward various cocktails of drugs were tried and Mum only got worse. Not the agitation, but she could hardly walk, couldn't talk, was stooped 45 degrees, wasn't eating or drinking and had lost lots of weight.

The consultant told me Mum didn't have long and from now on it would only be pallitive care.

She was moved to a continuing care home ( and at first I paniced)

To-day I visited and her gait is much more normal. She can walk,
SHE RECOGNISED ME AND SHE TOLD A CARER I WAS HER DAUGHTER. First time she has talked in 2 months. She is eating and more to the point able to feed herself.

Her sedative medications has been reduced, anti-psychotics discontinued and she is so much more alert. Still trying to get her kit of, but is so much better and doesn't, now look as though "she doesn't have long"

How can hospitals do this? Mum was there to be stabalized. Instead, I believe she would have died with all the drugs she was given.

Alfjess

 

[christine_batch]

Dear Alfjes,
Unfortunately, this is one of the grey areas when Doctors give this and that and this is my own personal observation over the years has resulted in the same thing your has happened to your Mum.
I am so glad that now your Mum is back in a better position after her cocktail of drugs.
I go over with Peter's Consultant all his medication and he is not one for trying this and that and unfortunately there are not enough of his calibre.
Best wishes
Christine

 

[Grannie G]

Honestly Alfjess, I don`t know whether to say it is wonderful news or terrible news.

Wonderful because your mother is regaining some speech and mobility, and terrible becase of what she has been through.

Was the medication reduced and discontinued because it was thought she didn`t have long to live, or was it because it is the policy of the continuing care home, to reduce it.

Whatever, it`s really good news that your mother knows you again.

Love xx

 

[gill@anchorage5]

Good News

Hello Alfjess

Good to read your post & to hear such positive news. Our threads tell a similar tale & it honestly does make you wonder...

We reqested that Dad be taken off the anti-psychotic drugs in December as he was just so zonked out all the time.

As we have found out in the last 2 weeks - two of Dad's other tablets were having a negative effect on him too. We will just have to see how things go - but for now, like your Mum, Dad seems to be doing better without the meds

I hope things continue to improve.

Love

Gill x

 

[Cloudwatcher]

Hello Alfjess

My Mum has AD and was prescribed Diazepam by her GP. My Dad would give her this occasionally if he felt she was agitated. I had a gut feeling that it wasn't doing any good. I did a bit of research on the internet and if you look at the side effects of these drugs they are actually very similar to the symptoms of dementia. So to me it seems some of these drugs can worsen the symptoms. But what do I know?! From what you have said in your post, there could be a connection.

I am glad your Mum has made an improvement now the drugs are being reduced.

Best wishes.

Lee x

 

[Canadian Joanne]

I am in the midst of the process of gradually getting my mother's meds reduced. We're focussed on the ones with a sedative effect, as she has been sleeping a great deal. However, a year ago these drugs didn't make her sleepy at all. They simply kept her from being overly agitated. AD does take it toll so now we are tweaking her meds again. I find this is something that has to be done periodically. Sometimes one can go a long time with the same meds, at other times one can be changing things every few weeks. It's all part of the process.

 

[alfjess]

Hi Everyone

Mum continues to improve.

It is unbelievable, compared to what she was like 2 weeks ago. (I was told she didn't have long)

She is now eating and drinking, lots. She can manage to feed herself.

Temezepam has been discontinued, Diazepam is being reduced, and she now doesn't get anti-psychioctics, but she has been prescibed memantine(ebixa) and so far, there have been no signs of the severe agitation, which started this very rapid downward spiral.

I believe Mum was over-medicated in hospital, but I am also wondering if the Ebixa has anything to do with this amazing turn around.

I did ask for Ebixa for both Mum and Dad approx 3 years ago and was refused, but the consultant has now told me, it is prescibed on a named patient basis only, and has to be justified.

I think this situation is horrendous. I know it won't work for some, but for those it does work for, they should have the chance to try it

How many sufferers could be kept at home for longer, if this drug was readily available to all?

Sorry rant over, but if anyone wants to start a campaign, count me in. Sorry, don't have the time or energy to do it myself

Alfjess

 

[elaineo2]

Hi Everyone

Mum continues to improve.

It is unbelievable, compared to what she was like 2 weeks ago. (I was told she didn't have long)

She is now eating and drinking, lots. She can manage to feed herself.

Temezepam has been discontinued, Diazepam is being reduced, and she now doesn't get anti-psychioctics, but she has been prescibed memantine(ebixa) and so far, there have been no signs of the severe agitation, which started this very rapid downward spiral.

I believe Mum was over-medicated in hospital, but I am also wondering if the Ebixa has anything to do with this amazing turn around.

I did ask for Ebixa for both Mum and Dad approx 3 years ago and was refused, but the consultant has now told me, it is prescibed on a named patient basis only, and has to be justified.

I think this situation is horrendous. I know it won't work for some, but for those it does work for, they should have the chance to try it

How many sufferers could be kept at home for longer, if this drug was readily available to all?

Sorry rant over, but if anyone wants to start a campaign, count me in. Sorry, don't have the time or energy to do it myself

Alfjess

ooooooooooh am started wi this one,med reviwes are 6 monthly but any concerns in the meantime. should be reported by care staff.am shutting up now.got so much on this one.love elainex

 

[Taffy]

Hello, I am also pleased that your mum is improving. The issue you have raised about 'Over Medication' I feel is more common than most people realise... it seems to be all hit and miss.

The saddest part is what the poor souls have to endure and mostly unnecessarily. My dad's mum was put on a cocktail of different drugs (this is years back) and finally the care home told my Aunt she would have to find another facility...the best thing they ever did for her. The new home weaned her off the medications and in no time she was able to find peace and enjoyment in what time she had left. I hope that things continue to improve for your mum. Best Wishes Taffy.

 

[Margarita]

SHE RECOGNISED ME AND SHE TOLD A CARER I WAS HER DAUGHTER. First time she has talked in 2 months. She is eating and more to the point able to feed herself.

Well you all know me , being optimistic person am going to say that is really good news

 

[Grannie G]

Mum continues to improve.

Excellent news Alfjess, but what a horror story in order to get to this stage.

Love xx

 

[alfjess]

Thanks Everyone

Mum continues to improve.

She has even been to the hairdresser for a shampoo and set. This is more than I was able to achieve, when I had her at home.

If this improvement is due to Ebixa, (which is still to be proven) I think it is scandalous that all suffers don't get a chance to try it earlier.

Ebixa has to be cheaper than the vast amount of seditive and anti-psychotic drugs Mum has been given in the past.

It really does make me very angry

Love
Alfjess

 

[Cloudwatcher]

Dear Alfjess,

I am so glad to hear your Mum continues to improve, but sadden at what you have both had to go through.

I really don't like these "Pam" drugs, and there is quite a few.I'm no pharmacist but I have a gut feeling that they exacerbate symptoms of dementia. I hope the Ebixa will be a better drug for her and her condition will be stabled with these.

Go get your hair done, you deserve it!!

Love Lee x

 

[Cloudwatcher]

The "Pams"

I am sorry if similar has been posted before or even if these drugs have given relief to suffers and/or carers.

If they have, then I am delighted and please tell me I am wrong.

I am extremely sceptical?? about the "benefits" they give to people suffering from organic brain disorders.

Lorazepam, Diazepam, Temazepam are all benzodiazepines. Here are the side affects of the Benzos...........................

Short Term Effects10
Low to Moderate Doses (ME Here, Note the dose)

Benzodiazepines are prescribed for relaxation, calmness, and relief from anxiety and tension. In some cases side effects will occur; these vary widely depending on the type of benzodiazepine, the dose, and the person. They can include:

* Impaired motor coordination
* Drowsiness, lethargy, fatigue
* Impaired thinking and memory
* Confusion
* Depression
* Altered vision
* Slurred speech, stuttering
* Vertigo
* Tremors
* Respiratory depression
* Nausea, constipation, dry mouth, abdominal discomfort, loss of appetite, vomiting, diarrhea. END.

ME here again..........

Do any of these side affects sound familiar to the symptoms our loved ones experience BEFORE prescribed these drugs? Are they making the condition worse? I am confused! My personal opinion is no more benzo, but what do I know!?

If anyone knows better then please enlighten me and others.

Love always,

Lee x

PS currently I am taking Ibuforen and one of the side affects is ringing in the ears and I'm getting it, just in case you think side affects are negilable. x

 

[Scoop]

I think some of the side effect stuff you read on the Internet should be taken with caution, often they only occur in very few people. Unfortunatley with dementia it's all a bit trial and error, something that works for some doesn't for others.

I am about to push for a review now as my Dad is getting worse and worse with his agitation. He didn't go to sleep until gone 3 this morning after an extra dose of olanzapine, didn't help Mum as she herself has a bad stomach and has been up half the night..

He is on Memantine/Olanzapine and zopiclone.. Hi Olanzapine intake has inreased lately, the recent behaviour could be that although it's what it is supposed to help with or maybe he is just deteriating? Who knows...

hmmm

Scott

 

[Margarita]

Ebixa has to be cheaper than the vast amount of seditive and anti-psychotic drugs Mum has been given in the past.

I have always wonder that , If the Alzheimer's society has put that case forward ,

as in , If anyone done a study in how much it cost to give out those anti-psychotic drugs ,compared to Exbixa .

I do understand that in some is causes that anti-psychotic drugs have to been given in a moment of uncontrollable rage , as they can become a danger to themselves, and those around them , but that at the extreme end of it .

How I perceive it is that they popping them out just to control normal challenging behaviors of dementia, as in not wanting someone to help then wash , helping them not to put themselves in danger in the kitchen , Etc.

My mother gone for me with anything that in her hand in the kitchen when I've tried to help her , if I had told a CPN, Doctor he would of said . " Oh they medication to control that " or " if its getting to much for you they care home we can put your mother in " NO sorry ! I don't want to hear that . what I want to hear is "Oh they a training course you can go to in understanding what going on in the brain of someone with dementia, so can help you handle those situation. "" also " your mother in late stages , try this medication Exbiza it may help .

We don't live in that kind of society in United Kingdom when it come to dementia , I had to go to Gibraltar to be offered the right medication for my mother, even to be told what was really wrong with my mother .

Yes it does not work for every one , but at lest you can say "Well we tried " we was given a choice, The freedom to chose and it did not work , or it did work , it not a cure I know , but its a better alternative then anti-psychotic drugs.

 

[alfjess]

Oh Magarita

I do so agree with you.

If I knew then, what I know now, I would have fought harder for memantine and refused all the benzodiazepams and anti psychotic drugs for Mum

It maybe that, it's not he ebixa and just all the chemicals getting out of her system, but whatever, I am so pleased.

Love
Alfjess

 

[daughter]

Well done Magarita, as far as I am concerned you are so right in all you've just said.

Whilst in this ward various cocktails of drugs were tried and Mum only got worse. Not the agitation, but she could hardly walk, couldn't talk, was stooped 45 degrees, wasn't eating or drinking and had lost lots of weight.

To-day I visited and her gait is much more normal. She can walk,
SHE RECOGNISED ME AND SHE TOLD A CARER I WAS HER DAUGHTER. First time she has talked in 2 months. She is eating and more to the point able to feed herself.

Her sedative medications has been reduced, anti-psychotics discontinued and she is so much more alert.

alfjess, I am pleased for you that your Mum has improved but your tale is sadly familiar to me. My Dad was on Haloperidol for eight months, during which time we he became very lethargic, zombie-like and bent over, with his chin resting on his chest.

Eventually Dad collapsed and was taken to hospital where we were told that he had been over-medicated. He was taken off the Haloperidol and the difference appeared to be immediate. After several years he recognised my Mum and said her name.

How many more stories like this do we have to read before something is done about over-medication?

 

[Margarita]

It maybe that, it's not he ebixa and just all the chemicals getting out of her system, but whatever, I am so pleased.

I bet you are pleased like Hazel says

He was taken off the Haloperidol and the difference appeared to be immediate. After several years he recognised my Mum and said her name

So it could be all those chemicals getting out of her system.

while Exbixa give what ever it give, to take away a mild edge of the anxiety, agitation,angry confused felt that make them wonder around aimlessly .

That what I notice with my mother .

Must say that it did take a good 6 mouths to work into mum system, as they started her on a low does of half 10 mg then 10 mg then up it to 20 mg .

Some people find it make a different
soon as they take it , but not for my mother , as every one system is different
she did have a few hallutionation
on it , when they up it to 10 mg , but nothing to scary for her , as she said she saw my father standing in her room , then on a horse & cart. ( They first date was on a horse & cart ) my father had pass away the year before. So she found confront in seeing him , but after a few mouths they went away the hallutionation . when her system got use to the 10 mg so they up it to 20 mg , she been fine on it every since with no hallutionation .

 

[Margarita]

God I remember cutting up those tablets and my mother saying she not taking them , no wanting to take any medication in my desperation , I would get so anger I would just have to leave the house and cry . then when I got back she was so worried scared that I was not coming back , that she welcome me with open arms , she take medication . then it would start again the next day that I just broke down and cried in front of her as when I get angry I Cry , in my crying I told her I take take it any more I can t look after her any more she must of felt my desperation , she took the medication , she keep taking it. she count every tablet felt like she thought I was trying to kill her . I keep telling her its for your memory , when they started to work , she released what I was doing was just helping her .