1. Expert Q&A: Benefits - Weds 23 October, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of benefits. It will be hosted by Lauren from our Knowledge Services team. She'll be answering your questions on Wednesday 23 October between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

Opinions, please, on completing financial asset form for council

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Boldredrosie, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    244
    Please could I benefit from people's opinion and experiences in relation to completing a financial assessment form for the council to assess whether or not the council will fund any respite care for my mother?

    There's an option for non-disclosure for non-residential services but as we're talking about respite care I think I have to fill it in, but as mum's assets are way over £23k (I understand this is the maximum you can have) I know she won't get any help.

    My reluctance is two-fold.
    1 It's considerable effort on my part as dad left her with multiple accounts, savings etc to fill in the form and provide copies of everything (I work full time and have a teen with learning difficulties)
    2 My experience with the council and social services in relation to both parents has not been good and I really am uncomfortable providing this level of detail to a council that's not covered itself in glory.

    What do others think?
     
  2. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    4,296
    SW London
    Personally, if I knew I was going to have to pay in full anyway, I would not see the need to provide them with any details of finances. I am always very reluctant to dish out any kind of financial information in any case.
     
  3. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    As her funds are way over the top limit I would just arrange self funding respite in a home of your choice. There is no point in struggling to get financial details quickly only to be told 'sorry over limit, no financial help'

    I would also set about documenting her finances on a spreadsheet.
    Does anybody have Lasting Power of Attorney?
     
  4. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    244
    I have PoA and have had for quite a while. I also do have a spreadsheet of her assets but in the broadest, top level sense. This form asks for details of all shares -- mum has a considerable sum in stocks and shares tied up in some kind of investment wrapper & if I've understood the form correctly I'd have to list each company that the fund invests in. Then there's all the photocopying or printing out of statements etc (I know I'm coming over as a lazy **** but after ten years of taking care of her I'm hugely bloody resentful of everything associated with her, dreadful, ungrateful child that I am).

    I wonder if the way around it is this:
    Just pick one simple savings account that whacks her way over the 23k threshold, add in the two current accounts. Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt she's over the limit you have to pay for her respite care. What do you think?
     
  5. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    if you know she's well over the limit, I wouldn't bother.
    Arrange your own respite and pay for it.
     
  6. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,715
    Female
    London
    The thing is that every council seem to do respite care differently. Some councils charge a fixed amount no matter what is in the bank but somehow still want a financial assessment from you (I speak from experience) and others means-test everything. I would ask them what their procedure is and whether it might be enough telling them she's over the threshold? But if she is they might not contribute anything. If you have to fill in the form, I'd do it properly and don't pick and choose. You might be accused of trying to hide assets otherwise.
     
  7. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,185
    Female
    Chester
    #7 jugglingmum, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    When my mum went into sheltered Extra Care, as the care is provided via SS, she had to have a financial assessment. At that stage I had no idea what her assets were, as given the state of the house I hadn't located all the bits of paper. I did however know she had considerable assets. I explained this to SW and she needed numbers to go in boxes so I gave her random numbers (based roughly on bank statements I had located at that stage) that were sufficient for her purposes, value of cash, and value of house I think so no shares were included as I had no idea at the time what she had. SW said that as long as paperwork showed above limit that was all that was needed.

    I should add that as she had vacated house the value of this was taken into account and this gave a high figure way above any question of SS contribution for years
     
  8. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...mum has a considerable sum in stocks and shares tied up in some kind of investment wrapper & if I've understood the form correctly I'd have to list each company that the fund invests in..."

    If you decide to tell them just name the fund and the amount invested, individual investments within the fund could well be volatile, they can look the fund up for themselves.

    Free respite is quite often the 6 weeks max reablement which applies to acute conditions rather than progressive worsening.
     
  9. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    #9 Chemmy, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    I wouldn't want all my financial details sitting in a file in the council offices if it wasn't necessary. We never bothered for mum or MIL.

    I agree with the others. Just make your own arrangements.
     
  10. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    I wouldn't either. You have to consider the value of your time and effort too. I'd just get the respite sorted yourselves which will no doubt be much quicker. When I was looking at care homes for my mum who was also self-funding most of them had respite options which could be arranged directly with the home.

    However, in the longer term, you may want to get the information in order anyway if someone has to take over managing her finances. As Nitram mentions, if there is already a 'someone' with LPA he/she should be up to speed on mum's finances even if no action is needed yet. If not, that is definitely a high priority to get organised as well as LPA for health & welfare.
     
  11. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    244
    So here's the background to this: social services have been absolutely horrendous to deal with locally. In the last four years I've made three complaints about social services, meanwhile my mum is declining and we really are at a tipping point where even if I was prepared to look after her (& I no longer am) I'm simply not equipped, trained or have the time to do it effectively & properly. Her continued living with me and my son has come at a huge cost (emotionally for both of us & financially to me) and it has taken the intervention of a rather super young woman at Age UK to get social services to take the situation at our house seriously.
    At a meeting with social services that Age UK attended, the social worker agreed to look at getting respite care sorted locally & said I'd need to fill in these forms. I said, what's the point, she's way over your max limit, the council will not stump up. They both asked that I do it even if the result was a foregone conclusion. I agreed at the time without fully appreciating the level of detail this would involve or the amount of effort on my part in completing this.
    As I finally feel I've got someone on my side (the Age UK woman) I don't really want to alienate her but I am hugely uncomfortable providing that level of private information about my mum's assets to an organisation that has shown no care or compassion towards my parents or son and whose employees have been neglectful and downright liars.
    So you see my quandary? I'm happy for the social worker to look for homes locally (although I've already done considerable research into them) and make a referral, I'm happy to use mum's money to pay for the respite, I just don't want to let them have this level of detail. It's not like we've anything to hide and HMRC has a full picture or mum's worth but it is this bunch of people that I'd prefer not to tell.
     
  12. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    244
    I am mum's PoA and do feel up to speed about her finances although I'd have to look at the paperwork in order to say how many shares she had of any one company etc. We also have financial adviser who manages the big investment who can tell me on any working day the value of that big chunk of her assets. As for the H&W LPA I think I've missed the boat on that one. Doesn't the person have to give authority to it like the do with the financial one? Ma no longer has capacity and I can't see that anybody would countersign it the state she is. Which means a trip to the Public Guardian, doesn't it? And I don't fancy that.
     
  13. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    The donor of any LPA has to have capacity at the time of signing.

    I would just go ahead and organise your own respite.

    If you want to clarify the position with the LA as regards financial assessment formally ask higher up the food chain that if you are prepared to state that your mum has well in excess of the upper limit of £23250 do they need any more details and if so under what legislation. If you get the expected answer that you don't have to give details you could then show the reply to the nice lady at Age UK - not aggressively, just clarifying that in your case details will not be required.
     
  14. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    4,296
    SW London
    I agree absolutely. And if it really were necessary, I would heavily black out any account numbers etc. - you can't be too careful these days and IMO it would be naive to assume that there are no dodgy types working in council offices.
     
  15. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    244
    Well, exactly. Anyway, thank you everybody for your comments, which as always with this forum are helpful. The SW has phoned up to chase the form so I've had a chat with her about my concerns & the conclusion is I send it back and say I know she's over the max allowed savings so we'll just pay but we would appreciate your advice and recommendations on suitable care homes locally for respite care.
     
  16. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,973
    Suffolk
    Sorry, posted and just read last post!

    Somewhere on the form ( it's right at the end on ours) is a section saying words to the effect of ' if you have more than £ 23,000 and don't wish to disclose the details, please sign here'.
    Form finished!

    I do have things on a spread sheet, have done for years, long before dementia reared it's ugly head, it makes life do much easier!
     
  17. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Sorry if I jumped the gun as you obviously have the information you need already. If it isn't possible to obtain H&W LPA, I have read here that deputyship us not often granted for H&W. I didn't have LPA either but never had any difficulty getting health professionals etc to talk to me about mum's situation; others on this forum haven't been so lucky so worth trying to see if it us still feasible.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.