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    As a carer for a person living with dementia, the needs of the person you care for will often come before your own. You may experience a range of difficult emotions and you may not have the time to do all the things you need to do. Caring can have a big impact on both your mental and physical health, as well as your overall wellbeing.

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    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

occupational pension

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Early riser, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Early riser

    Early riser Registered User

    Mar 16, 2014
    23
    Yorkshire
    I've read lots of posts about the wife being able to keep 50% of any occupational pension, but how is this actually worked out?
    Is it 50% of the gross amount or the net amount?
    Is tax paid twice, once by the husband and then again by the wife?
    I know one of you wise people will know the answer, so thank you in advance.
     
  2. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,501
    Female
    Near Southampton
    I just divide the actual monthly pension by 2 and transfer half to a different account in my own name.The other half remains in the bank account and is paid towards my husband's nursing home fees.
     
  3. piph

    piph Registered User

    Feb 4, 2013
    1,530
    Northamptonshire
    Is this in the case of a self funder in the CH?
     
  4. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    11,590
    West Midlands
    My pensions advisor (OH) has gone to bed so I shall ask him in the morning.

    I have a sneaky suspicion Saffie is right... You get 50% of his pension after he has paid tax.... Then you pay tax on your bit...

    Don't you just love the tax system
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    I'm wondering if you meant to write what you wrote? You don't have to pay tax on "your" half if tax has already been paid on the whole thing.
     
  6. claire43

    claire43 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2013
    153
    South Wales
    We were told my mother was entitled to half of my fathers occupational pension. Now that he has been a CH for a several weeks we recently received an invoice from the LA with a breakdown of my dads income & they have taken all of his occ. pension & his state pension.

    Devastating :mad:
     
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    Well they are wrong, wrong, wrong. Did I say they were wrong?


    Get back on the the LA and refer them to 8.026 of crag which states

     
  8. piph

    piph Registered User

    Feb 4, 2013
    1,530
    Northamptonshire
    I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that they were legally not allowed to take all of an occupational pension if the spouse was still in the family home.
     
  9. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    11,590
    West Midlands
    Depends....

    Shall ask the "expert" (OH) tomorrow.
    He having dealt in pensions for over 20 years and ALL it's foibles.

    But you could be right. Hope you are.
     
  10. piph

    piph Registered User

    Feb 4, 2013
    1,530
    Northamptonshire
    2jays - sorry to go off topic, but perhaps your pensions expert could help me. I'm expecting a very small occupational pension, due in Aug, of only about £40 a month. I'm planning to ask for it in a lump sum. If they agree, and, I'm expecting to live at least another 20 years, how much would be an acceptable offer? This may be impossible to answer, but I'd be interested in his input.

    Thanks, and sorry to the OP to go off topic.
     
  11. claire43

    claire43 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2013
    153
    South Wales
    That is what we believed too. When I had the breakdown of costs from local auth it clearly states they are taking all of my dads income and my mothers entitlement is zero. I hoped they were mistaken but after I made enquiries it seems it not such a black & white area. The sw has asked the finance dept to speak to me but that was almost 2 wks ago & havent heard anything yet.

    We now have an invoice asking for almost £2,000 in arrears to be paid. This is without the £75 pw top up fees we have to pay.

    Jenniferpa: How I wish it was that simple. No matter what arguments I put up I feel like Im banging my head against a brick wall.

    We are now faced with taking dad out of the care home due to financial reasons, bringing him home without a care package - cant afford that either, and claiming a carers allowance which we will use to pay my daughter to sit with him a couple of nights per week. She is already a trained carer & works with elderly people in their own homes. She has agreed to cut her hours at work & we will make up her loss of earnings whilst she looks after my dad as much as possible.

    Certainly not ideal but we are out of choices thanks to the stupidity of the care system :mad:
     
  12. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,501
    Female
    Near Southampton
    It has nothing to do with income tax 2jays. That has ready been paid. A wife is entitled to half the net pension and that is what the LA base their assessment on too. I have the absolute proof of it in a statement from the financial dept of my LA of my husband's contribution towards his nursing home fees for the coming financial year.
     
  13. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    I don't want to sound pushy (well I do but...) they really cannot do this. They must follow CRAG and it's not optional. 2 weeks may not be so long, particularly with Easter in there, but if they come back and tell you the same thing they you should definitely put in a formal complaint. The truth is, some LAs try it on (not all, by any means) and you need to fight your parent's corner.

    If you don't believe me, can I suggest you call the AS help-line as they will be able to confirm what I have said. http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/faq.php?faq=resources#faq_resources_helpline
     
  14. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,501
    Female
    Near Southampton
    Piph, complete self- funders can keep whatever they like. They just have to be able to pay the fees!
     
  15. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    Claire - I see you're in Wales. There is a separate CRAG for this (and I can't find a newer one than 2012) but that also states

     
  16. claire43

    claire43 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2013
    153
    South Wales
    Jenniferpa: I havent completely given up. I am still going to try & put up a fight but this is what the letter from the local auth says:

    An assessment of your weekly contribution including a breakdown of how your assessed weekly contributions have been calculated:

    Income

    State Pension - £136.80 pw
    Occ. Pension - £218.93 pw

    Total Income - (A) £355.73 pw

    Disregards

    Personal Expenses Allowance - £25.00 pw
    Savings Credit (??) - £5.75 pw
    Spouse (1/2 occ pen) - £0.00 pw

    Total Disregard (B) - £30.75

    Your Weekly Contribution (A) - (B) = £324.98 pw
     
  17. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    It sounds as if they simply haven't accounted for the 1/2 occupational pension going to the spouse (if what it actually says is Spouse (1/2 occ pen) - £0.00 pw since if they have that line they obviously realise that this is an option).

    Do they perhaps think that your father doesn't have a spouse?

    Honestly - your mother absolutely should be receiving this 50%. To me, that looks like some one hasn't filled in the right boxes.

    It's possible that there is some form you need to fill in for the LA to say that he will be passing 50% of his pension back to your mother.
     
  18. claire43

    claire43 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2013
    153
    South Wales
    I hope its something as simple as that. We did fill in the form and it was checked by the social worker before we submitted it so dont know why they wouldnt have acknowledged my mother.

    I feel a bit stronger now so I am going to try and get to the bottom of things. To be honest when I received this assessment, followed by the invoice demanding payment it nearly broke me and I sort of shut myself off from reality. I spent so much time crying out of desperation, I just felt totally defeated.

    Money is tight as it is. Just finding the top up fee every week is a nightmare without all this.
     
  19. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Hi Claire

    Wondered where you'd got to! Good to hear from you :)

    Can I just say that I agree with JenniferPA. Your mother is definitely entitled to 50% of the occupational pension.

    If you don't get a positive answer soon, complain to the local authority in writing. It is appalling that you are feeling that you have have to take your father out of his CH on financial grounds. I have got pretty wound up myself trying to fight the system sometimes.....but I feel that this is a case where you shouldn't have to, because it does sound as though someone has made a mistake!!!!

    All the best and take care :)

    Lindy xx
     
  20. claire43

    claire43 Registered User

    Jul 11, 2013
    153
    South Wales
    Thanks Lindy.

    I did disappear for a few days. I had to stop myself thinking about it before I had a mini breakdown. I basically stuck my hand in the sand whilst waiting for someone to get in touch with me from either the local auth finance dept or my local councillor.

    Today was the first day I have given it any thought and will be back on the case properly tomorrow.

    Wish me luck :confused:
     

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