Just curious as I been reading your other thread on France, how does the system work there? Is there state funding?
Nursing home fees when you're absent
- Thread starter Reverend James
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Just curious as I been reading your other thread on France, how does the system work there? Is there state funding?
That would be interesting.
Funnily enough, I was sitting on a flight back from Spain just a couple of weeks ago next to a trained live-in dementia carer. She's an British expat nurse who flies in regularly for short respite 1:1 contracts (22 hrs care per day
)She was telling me all about Spain's health system which is much more efficient than here in terms of GP and hospitals, but social care provision over there is basic to non-existant. If you are an unmarried mother or a an unemployed youth, then you get a bare minimum and you are your family's responsibility.
She foresaw the dementia issue becoming more of a problem over there over the next decade as people are now living longer. We have to remember that there was a huge loss of life in the 1930s during the Spanish civil war which wiped out a not-insubstantial part of the generation of our parents' age.
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Personally, I'd rather my mum paid extra as a self-funder than leave those without assets to the mercy of a more ruthless state.
There are state-funded homes (about 60%) and privately-funded homes, either residential or "medicalised" homes (ie: nursing homes) - the latter usually with Alz/dementia units.
They provide the same level of care (in theory), but the private homes have nicer furnishings, maybe larger communal rooms etc.
The fees are around £2,500 to £3,500 per month - which seems to correspond to the LA-funded fees in the UK...?
The big difference though, which was mentioned in a previous thread, is that any shortfall in fees is funded by the children. The state will pay only if the resident and his/her children have no assets.
That was exactly my view Chemmy. Particularly as I live in a country that tends to take that approach (hence my long-term care policy).
In the US you have to essentially spend down all of your assets to become eligible for medicare, plus I happen to live in a filial responsibility state where your children can be held responsible for your care costs. Shudder.
So the person needing care self-funds until their money runs out completely and then the children continue funding until their capital runs out too? Or is there a point where the state steps in once capital is below a certain threshold?
I guess it does remove the incentive to try and protect assets for the children to inherit while the state picks up the costs.
If the person needing care does not have enough ressources, on top of the state pension and other allowances, to meet the CH fees, then the family is asked to contribute, if they have enough income : husband/wife, then children, or even grandchcildren.
If there are no descendents, then the State pays.
The judge decides how much each person can contribute, based on their income. I don't think the person is required to sell their house/flat - but they would probably rent it out to help with CH fees.
If there are no descendents, then the State pays.
The judge decides how much each person can contribute, based on their income. I don't think the person is required to sell their house/flat - but they would probably rent it out to help with CH fees.
That's really interesting, Angela. So often we hear or read comparisons with other countries on health or social care issues, usually on the basis that they have a better or more generous system than ours, but it's rarely that simple.
No it's not simple.
I suppose it's part of the culture in France - family supporting an elderly relative. I think people accept the idea, when they can afford to contribute, but it does create problems when people feel they can't afford to pay, or when estranged children are asked to pay for parents they have not seen in years, or never got on with etc.
The fees are nothing like in the UK though - you can find good quality care homes for less than £2,000 a month, more for Paris and of course, more for nursing homes, Alzheimers etc.
People of my generation say they don't want their children to have to pay their CH/NH fees - they make provision, when possible, to avoid that, by having enough money each month, or saved up, or in a property that can be rented out - I have to say the last thing I would want is to be a financial burden on my children !
I suppose it's part of the culture in France - family supporting an elderly relative. I think people accept the idea, when they can afford to contribute, but it does create problems when people feel they can't afford to pay, or when estranged children are asked to pay for parents they have not seen in years, or never got on with etc.
The fees are nothing like in the UK though - you can find good quality care homes for less than £2,000 a month, more for Paris and of course, more for nursing homes, Alzheimers etc.
People of my generation say they don't want their children to have to pay their CH/NH fees - they make provision, when possible, to avoid that, by having enough money each month, or saved up, or in a property that can be rented out - I have to say the last thing I would want is to be a financial burden on my children !
I feel that way too, and it's worrying that various surveys seem to show that the majority of people don't have any realistic idea of how much they might need to save or even that they might need to make provision at all.
Really worrying, I agree.
Dealing with my mother's care needs really has opened my eyes - we are all told that we will live longer, well into our 90's... so that will mean years of care, even without serious illness.
The state will not be able to pay for all this - we don't want this burden to fall on our children, so we are trying to plan ahead etc.
But you are right, the costs are sky-high and can go on for years...
The system will have to change to accommodate this, I feel. Expensive care homes will become a thing of the past - if no-one can afford to pay for them!
Dealing with my mother's care needs really has opened my eyes - we are all told that we will live longer, well into our 90's... so that will mean years of care, even without serious illness.
The state will not be able to pay for all this - we don't want this burden to fall on our children, so we are trying to plan ahead etc.
But you are right, the costs are sky-high and can go on for years...
The system will have to change to accommodate this, I feel. Expensive care homes will become a thing of the past - if no-one can afford to pay for them!
