1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    hi,

    Can anyone give me some info as to where we stand, as it looks like the outcome will be that my mum may have to go into a home eventually.

    My dad cares for mum at the moment, they have joint savings and they own their own house, does the government take your house once savings are all spent.

    Think they wish they had wasted all their money on holidays now instead of future nursing home costs!

    All advice on this would be appreciated xx
     
  2. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,566
    Female
    Scotland
    While one partner remains in the house it is disregarded. Only half of joint savings would be counted.
     
  3. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    If your dad stays in the house it's value will be disregarded in any financial assessment by the LA.

    A financial assessment will include any assets in sole accounts in your mum's name and 50% of any held jointly with your dad.

    If your mum's assets are above £23250 she will be self funding, between this amount and £14250 the LA will contribute to the cost, below £14250 they will pay all the costs.

    If the LA is funding your mum will loose all her state pension and 50% of any private pension (your dad gets the other 50%) but she will be allowed to keep a personal expenditure allowance of £24.90 per week.
     
  4. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    How much of the house is taken to cover nursing home costs, or do they sell the house anyone know ?
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    As long as your dad stays in the house none of its value will be used to pay for your mother's care.
     
  6. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    As the other have said the house is disregarded. That means it does not have to be sold ever as long as your Dad lives in it.

    Things change if your Dad wants to sell in the future but for now none of the value of the house is taken to cover costs for your Mum.
     
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    Provided a spouse is still living in the property, it is totally disregarded (aka ignored) when it comes to paying nursing or care home bills.
     
  8. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    What happens when dad no longer alive do they take the whole cost of house then???
     
  9. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    Also what about a car they own do the take that into consideration?? Although dad drives it obviously.
     
  10. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    #10 nitram, Nov 15, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
    This assumes that dad predeceases your mum.
    What does your dad's will say?
    Is the house owned as joint tenants or tenants in common?

    EDIT
    About the car.
    What does you dad's will say?
     
  11. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    Home owned joint, will goes to the surviving partner, then left to daughter etc car is owned jointly.
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    When it come to paying for care, which I think is your primary concern, a will is rather irrelevant, although I realise that you did ask what would happen if your father died first. When it comes to what are normally referred to as "chattels" (which would include a car, furniture, etc.) they are excluded from the calculations when paying for care. The exception would be if someone purchased a car immediately before going in to a home and then gave it away in order to shield assets: that would be deprivation. And of course, if your father did predecease your mother, any assets your mother inherited would be fair game for inclusion although in the case of chattels, not until they were sold.
     
  13. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    Yeah I thought will is irrelevant, was just answering the question. I would like to know how much of the value of a house can they take? Does anyone know I know that in 2020 there will be a cap but is there one now or do they take the whole house?
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    #15 nitram, Nov 15, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
    The value of the house only comes into effect if you father dies before your mother, then it is just added to her other assets so the concept of a fraction of the value of the house only becomes relevant if it is the only sizeable asset.

    There is currently no cap. You self fund, unless you are awarded CHC or become eligible for Section 117, until you reach the LA upper limit

    The calculations in the Care Act 2014 were complex, their introduction in 2015 has been postponed until 2020 when there will be a new government. My personal view is that it could all change again and therefore it is somewhat a waste of time trying to do any calculations based on it.
     
  15. v2pv2pv2p

    v2pv2pv2p Registered User

    Nov 13, 2015
    8
    So there is no max amount of the value of a house they can take, so if she ended up in a home for 10 years etc and dad had passed they will take the funds from the value of the house ?
     
  16. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    #17 nitram, Nov 15, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
    As it stands at the moment your mother would be self funding using the proceeds from the sale of the house until the upper capital limit was reached, the LA would not actually take the money, your mother would spend it on care.

    In 2020 you should find out what the future situation will be.

    Your father can act now to try to limit the value of the house that would be spent on your mother's care, he can sever the joint tenancy
    https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

    This would mean that instead of jointly owning the whole house they would each own half of it.

    This in turn means that your father can bequeath his half to somebody other tan your mother.

    If your father died before your mother an argument would then ensue with the LA as to the value of half a house when the co owner was unwilling to sell.
     
  17. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,490
    Female
    London
    There is currently no cost cap, so until someone goes down to £23,250 they are classed as self-funding and will have to pay however much it costs, unless they qualify for CHC funding. A care cost cap of £72,000 was going to come in next year but has been delayed until 2020. Another government might decide differently then.
     
  18. stanleypj

    stanleypj Registered User

    Dec 8, 2011
    10,561
    North West
    Unpalatable as this possibility seems to many of us, particularly perhaps when we first realise it, that is an important distinction surely. Nobody's taking money away.
     
  19. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,310
    Male
    North Manchester
    "A care cost cap of £72,000 was going to come in next year but has been delayed until 2020"

    For reference that cost was a lifetime cap on care, there was a separate annual cap on 'hotel costs'.

    To further complicate matters the caps were based on the LA assessments of 'fair charges' not the actual amounts paid by the resident.

    The BBC produced a useful calculator
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30990913
    to give an estimate of lifetime cost.
     

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