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  1. Expert Q&A: Benefits - Weds 23 October, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of benefits. It will be hosted by Lauren from our Knowledge Services team. She'll be answering your questions on Wednesday 23 October between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

  1. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    I have read several posts recently which are very critical of hospital care.I'm not stupid and I know things are far from perfect.Not all employees are as good as they should be but I think the vast majority do the best they can.Not all,but most.In my opinion the crux of the problem is down to resources or lack of them.I do have a personal I interest as my son,daughter and daughter in law all work in the NHS.An anecdote which might provide food for thought:my daughter is in her first job as a staff nurse,she works 12.5 hour shifts and should have 3 breaks in that time.The most she has ever managed is 1,often none.There are not enough staff to physically do everything that needs to be done.The nature of the,work means that if someone becomes very ill suddenly other things have to wait,things like taking a patient to the toilet or getting them a drink for example.After 3 months she has realised that it is impossible to do the job as she would like to because she can't spread herself that thin.Relatives want the very best for their loved one,rightly so,but as things are now it's often a case of crisis management.She has to deal with relatives expectations and try to manage them.I think what I'm trying to say is that families and doctors and nurses and most people who work in the NHS are on the same side and want the best outcome for patients.How we get that ii the big question
     
  2. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,739
    #2 fizzie, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    My Ma died because of lack of hospital care. Lots of others have had similar experiences. The sad thing is that the hospitals don't learn from this experiences. I would love to say 'it wasn't down to individuals' but the reality is that it was down to individuals and I hope the day will come in the not too distant future when, as with other jobs, individuals will be held accountable. Actually on 3 of the wards my Ma was in over the three days it took them there were staff standing around at nurses stations and I was there day and night (except for 7 hours) and saw it all with my own eyes, day and night.

    Two years earlier my husband in the same hospital had to have a drug at a particular time, I told them (shouldn't have needed to do that) then when he didn't get it I phoned three times, and then took time off work and rushed in to find 4 nurses all standing around the nurses station, 5 hours after he should have had his drug....can't explain that!!!
     
  3. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    You have had bad experiences.The experience my family members are having as employees is nothing like you describe.I don't know which is the most representative.
     
  4. chick1962

    chick1962 Registered User

    Apr 3, 2014
    11,280
    Female
    near Folkestone
    I agree with you in some ways but if ppl are on waiting lists trying to get diagnosed with serious illnesses and have to wait month to find out , then that is so wrong . All we ever hear about is back log , delays, staffing issues and waiting times.. I can't fault the nurses and doctors as most of them are doing their outmost and are kind and caring . They work too long hours with not enough breaks or time off . However there is something seriously wrong with the NHS as patients are not getting the treatment they so desperately need and we only have one f life . Xxx


    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
     
  5. nae sporran

    nae sporran Volunteer Host

    Oct 29, 2014
    5,927
    Male
    Bristol
    OH has been in an out of hospital a few times over recent years, not for a year and half thankfully, but have to say it's very patchy even between wards in the same hospital. You go into one ward and there are plenty of nurses who can't do enough for patients and carers, then another where they are so stretched they have no time to clean up after patients and dirty linen is left on the floor. One nursing assistant always seemed very unhelpful, then I heard her say to another patient she was responsible for 25 patients on the nightshift.
    I have never seen anywhere where the nurses have time to sit around the nursing station for long, even at shift changeovers though.
     
  6. beverrino

    beverrino Registered User

    Jan 12, 2015
    1,111
    our local hospital is a massive one - extended so much over the years - even has its own railway station. my sister works there and was telling me that they are closing elderly care wards there and patients are being sent to a small cottage hospital some 30 miles away, making it more difficult for the elderly (with possibly a spouse of 50 years or more) to visit!
    I think this is absolutely shocking, the staff are all rushed off their feet, so building massive hospitals without sufficient staff is ridiculous. Rant over...
     
  7. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,739
    Kassy I sooooooooooooooooo agree that the only way to improve services is to complain. At one time I used to think it was only ok to complain about the institution but no longer now I complain about individuals. Individuals have a choice about how they treat people and should be held accountable
     
  8. maryw

    maryw Registered User

    Nov 16, 2008
    3,805
    Surrey
    I have seen both. Some years ago, my mother was on a ward for the senile elderly with pneumonia for 5 weeks over Christmas. The lack of staff was appalling and the staff were the first to admit this too. I spoke with her consultant twice during that time, the rest only junior doctors few and far between. The nurses did spend time around the station or in the corridor doing their mountains of paperwork rather than being hands-on. Sadly my mother did die on that ward and as many people on this forum know, it did result in a formal complaint. I believe things have improved on that ward from what I've heard.

    Fast forward 4 years and my husband had a major stroke. I was totally in awe of the 24/7 care he received. There were so many nurses and doctors and care and support for both of us was so impressive. Hubby has also been in the coronary care unit a few times and that was likewise impressive.

    From what I have seen, Heart, cancer, stroke, paediatrics all seem to be excellent; it is compassionate care for the elderly and those with dementia that needs investment and specialised training, and the resources are just not available as the funding is not there.
     
  9. chick1962

    chick1962 Registered User

    Apr 3, 2014
    11,280
    Female
    near Folkestone
    It's so tough to know who is running the NHS so badly . All our hospitals are on special measures. The nurses are excellent and under pressure too so are the doctors . Somehow it's not working anymore . Too many cut backs and too many managers and pen pushers perhaps? ????? And so many mistakes . It's so sad .


    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
     
  10. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    I agree that complaints should be about an individual rather than a generic group,I have had cause to complain about the attitude of a nurse in the past but I don't think she was representative of the whole profession.The concensus seems to be that there are massive problems,often with institutions,sometimes with individuals practically always with resources.The NHS is totally different now than at it's inception,more and better treatments,a rapidly aging population and a greater sense of entitlement in the public.God knows if or how it can be managed for the future.I hang on to the belief that most people who work in the NHS do so because they want to make a difference.I don't believe my daughter gave up an extremely well paid job and went back to university because she wanted to neglect people.Or that my son gets into work an hour before his shift starts so that a theatre list can start on time because he doesn't care about his patients.There are many problems,without the goodwill and hard work of a lot of people they would be so much worse
     
  11. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,739
    I think it is very difficult when conversations like this get very personal particularly for those of us who have had terrible experiences so I am going to bow out gracefully :) with my only words saying complain complain complain for those people who do not have anyone
     
  12. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    Nothing personal intended but yes a personal point of view.As are most points of view on here.
     
  13. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    Thank you Kassy I appreciate that.
     
  14. maryw

    maryw Registered User

    Nov 16, 2008
    3,805
    Surrey
    I too wish your son and daughter well. I really admire them.
     
  15. keegan2

    keegan2 Registered User

    Jan 11, 2015
    190
    Like most things people only comment when they have a bad experience. Fortunately with other half I have only been to hospital twice which was very recently and I cannot fault the care we received. Having said that when my mother had a stroke and went into hospital for a broken arm the care was a poor due to shortage of staff and probably my mothers needs. In this i mean she could not speak, could not move her right side of her body so required more help. At feeding time she hardly ate the nurses could only give her so much of their time and so she went without. After 2 days we requested a member of the family be allowed at meal times come in and feed her, this was refused at first as visitors were not allowed during these hours. After protests by us and the pressure that we were trying help them and her they agreed. Everyones time is precious and unfortunately in the care industry there is not enough of it....
     
  16. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    I agree,a lot,although not all of the problems are due to underfunding and understaffing.I have mentioned 'John's campaign'on another thread,this aims to give family the right to stay with patients like your mum in the same way that parents can stay with children
     
  17. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,739
    I'm sorry but I just don't understand how any hospital can treat someone for something and not feed them!! It makes no sense to me at all. Surely they can't ignore the basics, feeding, hydration and cleanliness and then shove drugs or treatments down their throats or into their veins and think they've done a good job. If they don't get the basics right then they may as well leave people on the streets. How ridiculous to refuse family help even in the first instance but again I would say if that had been someone who had no relatives then presumably they would died in hospital from lack of nutrition or hydration and then something else would have been put on the death certificate - bingo no problem!

    What is the point in even taking someone to hospital at a cost of £500 a day as a nurse kindly told me one day, and then not feed them! Barmy and cruel.
    Excuse the rant, i really will go away this time. I just can't believe how tolerant (?) people are of appalling care
     
  18. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    What you say is true,no one could argue with it.Where I would disagree is the cause of the problem.There are not enough staff employed to feed every patient,the NHS is massively underfunded,it is dealing with a crisis in elderly care that simply wasn't imagined when it was set up when people tended to die before or not long after retirement.I have no idea what the answer is,every solution costs money,people want low taxation,we get what we've voted for.I am not tolerating appalling care but trying to work out how it can improve.
     
  19. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,739
    I agree with what you are saying. However, one of the only ways it will improve is if people complain. I know how tired and exhausted people feel and how it is just one step too far to make a complaint but it is never ever going to improve if we don't complain through formal channels every time there is a problem. Our hospital simply doesn't listen until they are taken to task by higher authorities. I never ever thought I would even consider sueing (and I'm not sure I will now either) the NHS because it is taking money away from a service that is already tightly stretched but when they don't listen (even to solutions to some things which cost nothing) then they deserve everything they get. I sad down and talked it all through with the so called 'matron' and she couldn't even get the report of the conversation correct (or perhaps she didn't want to) and we have gone up and up and up through all the formal channels - the PHSO are taking it up but the same things are still happening and so in the end my only way forward will be through legal channels and believe me I will try anything first but our community does not trust our hospital anymore to look after elderly vulnerable patients so I won't stop fighting and if enough people complained they would have to listen and they would have to improve things.
     
  20. notsogooddtr

    notsogooddtr Registered User

    Jul 2, 2011
    847
    Fizzie who are 'they'?Clinical staff?Management?Government?What are the solutions which cost nothing?Your anger is palpable,can I ask if your local hospital is in special measures?
     
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