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NHS pressure to send Mum to wrong care home

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Writing this in anger as just had 2 phone calls from nurses trying to pressurise me into placing Mum into care 65 miles away from us.

Mum went into hospital 3 wks ago after a fall, she was assessed as not able to return home and referred to the Bed Bureau for care placement.

As Mum will go into care from hospital, the first 6 weeks will be funded by the NHS but because of that they are only trying to find the cheapest care option available that's willing to take Mum!

I have spoken to care homes that are more local to us and ones that have been on my radar as possible 'future, before the fall' options for Mum, one of which has vacancies right now, but as they charge more, the Bed Bureau haven't even sent Mum's details to them.

Has anyone experience of this...can we as a family make up the shortfall left from what the NHS are happy to fund?

I'm absolutely fuming, the nurse described Mum's care as 'funded' - it's 6 weeks funded that's all, we will have to sell Mum's home to pay for what's left of her lifetime, 6 weeks is nothing. I shouldn't have to fight for 6 weeks of care in the right home where Mum can stay permanently rather than moving her again in a few weeks.
 

Eogz

Registered User
Sep 9, 2021
27
0
Hi,
Some relatively quick answers here.
They are trying to discharge your mum on Discharge to assess beds, these are limited and not all care homes have them. You are right any NHS funding will be fully paid for the 1st 6 weeks, after that the NHS and Social Services need to decide who is responsible for your Mum's care.
If it is NHS, it will stay fully funded, if it is Social Services your Mum will be financially assessed to see if she can pay all or part of her care costs.
If she owns a house there is such a thing a deferred payments, social services will cover the cost of care (interest free) until death and then charge interest until the estate is settled and they are paid.
Yes, you can top up your Mum's care, your Mum, if she lacks capacity can't do this.
Speak to the discharge team at the hospital, they need to make a best interest decision re moving your Mum into a care home, this should include your views about your Mum's best interests, this can have an impact on where she should go as well.
Hope that helps a little.
 

Chaplin

Registered User
May 24, 2015
143
0
Bristol
Writing this in anger as just had 2 phone calls from nurses trying to pressurise me into placing Mum into care 65 miles away from us.

Mum went into hospital 3 wks ago after a fall, she was assessed as not able to return home and referred to the Bed Bureau for care placement.

As Mum will go into care from hospital, the first 6 weeks will be funded by the NHS but because of that they are only trying to find the cheapest care option available that's willing to take Mum!

I have spoken to care homes that are more local to us and ones that have been on my radar as possible 'future, before the fall' options for Mum, one of which has vacancies right now, but as they charge more, the Bed Bureau haven't even sent Mum's details to them.

Has anyone experience of this...can we as a family make up the shortfall left from what the NHS are happy to fund?

I'm absolutely fuming, the nurse described Mum's care as 'funded' - it's 6 weeks funded that's all, we will have to sell Mum's home to pay for what's left of her lifetime, 6 weeks is nothing. I shouldn't have to fight for 6 weeks of care in the right home where Mum can stay permanently rather than moving her again in a few weeks.
Hi, we were in this position in April. My mum had a stroke and taken to hospital from her residential home. They said they couldn’t have mum back as she needed nursing care. In hospital for 5 weeks because the hospital wanted to send her to a nursing home we had not seen or had poor reviews. We refused the options, found a nursing home with excellent reputation for people with complex needs, spoke with the manager who was happy to take mum even on reduced NHS funding as she knew we’d be happy for her to stay there at the end of the 6 weeks. Stick to your guns, enquire with the home you have identified and ask if they will take your mum for 6 weeks funded by NHS, they can only say no. The hospital caved in to us in the end as they knew it was more expensive to them keeping mum in hospital, not a great environment for anyone with dementia! Good luck.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,706
0
West Hertfordshire
Other than geographical distance, in what way is it wrong??

You can, of course, just put her ino the nursing home of your choice and forego the free 6 weeks
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
2,026
0
High Peak
If you're willing to pay a top up for the home near you that you like, let the discharge people know. You are definitely allowed to do this, and as you say, if she will be moving there anyway after the 6 weeks it makes sense to push for that home.

Just a thought - that is the usual situation with care homes - I'm assuming it applies to D2A beds too, but I'm not certain. Again check with the discharge team.
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Other than geographical distance, in what way is it wrong??

You can, of course, just put her ino the nursing home of your choice and forego the free 6 weeks
130 mile round trip to visit is definitely far from acceptable, particularly when a home that has been on my radar for months is only 15 miles away and has vacancies! Mum will hardly ever see us, whereas I could visit the other home often. ... and we all know after the last 18mths just how valuable those visits are to anyone in care. Also I cannot find any reviews or photos of the home online - alarm bells ringing!!!.

Because of the distance it certainly couldn't be a long term solution so therefore I would have to look at moving Mum yet again in the future and she's already been in 2 hospitals within 3 weeks. Someone with dementia needs to be settled into what becomes familiar surroundings, not constantly on the move and confused. Most importantly it needs to be the right home for Mum, the cheapest of anything tends not to be the best.

...and yes you are right we could forego the 6wks, but Mum's care is now being managed as a serf through the bed bureau and personally those 6 wks paid are the absolute least that Mum deserves after working all her life and Dad too and now their home will be sold to pay for every penny of Mum's future care.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,706
0
West Hertfordshire
No, your Mums & Dads home, providing he is still alive, wont have to be sold.

The more local home may have vacancies, but not at the price SS will pay.
is it classed as a re-enablement package?
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Hi,
Some relatively quick answers here.
They are trying to discharge your mum on Discharge to assess beds, these are limited and not all care homes have them. You are right any NHS funding will be fully paid for the 1st 6 weeks, after that the NHS and Social Services need to decide who is responsible for your Mum's care.
If it is NHS, it will stay fully funded, if it is Social Services your Mum will be financially assessed to see if she can pay all or part of her care costs.
If she owns a house there is such a thing a deferred payments, social services will cover the cost of care (interest free) until death and then charge interest until the estate is settled and they are paid.
Yes, you can top up your Mum's care, your Mum, if she lacks capacity can't do this.
Speak to the discharge team at the hospital, they need to make a best interest decision re moving your Mum into a care home, this should include your views about your Mum's best interests, this can have an impact on where she should go as well.
Hope that helps a little.
No, your Mums & Dads home, providing he is still alive, wont have to be sold.

The more local home may have vacancies, but not at the price SS will pay.
is it classed as a re-enablement package?
No we lost Dad, Mum is on her own in their home (or was).

Our choice is definitely not the same price as the home chosen by ss (it's still far from a top end price category though) but we have said we are willing to pay any shortfall, so there's no excuse to choose a cheaper, far away option and we would much rather move Mum into a permanent home rather than an unknown stop gap. That's not kind or fair for someone with dementia. I'm fighting Mum's fight because she can't - she's happy and oblivious to all this, whereas I'll be going to an early grave with a stress induced heart attack, lol
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,706
0
West Hertfordshire
I think you need to forget the 6 paid weeks, yes thats rough but....

Just get on and place her in the home of your choice now, and pick up the bill.
All the time you are battling with them, is time she is stuck in hospital.

Ask for a best interests meeting soonest , tell them your plan, and as long as you/she is happy to pick up the bill I cannot see as they can object really if the home of your hoice is appropraite and has places
 

jugglingmum

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
6,053
0
Chester
I'm afraid I agree with @Jessbow.

65 miles from you is I agree unreasonable if you are in an urban area but if that's all they have then that's what you get offered. The NHS will have negotiated a very low price below what the home charges self funders I would expect as well.

If you dig your heels in your mum may end up in hospital for a further 2 to 3 weeks deteriorate and not be accepted by the home you've chosen. She might still end up in the home 65 miles away as well.

Unpalatable as it is the best thing for your mum is to move her to the home of your choice asap.

I've measured many decisions in the context of a weeks cost of a dementia nursing home ie what it'll cost later on. The money you are talking for a self funder is probably only 2 weeks worth. The system is creaking and the stress to yourself isn't worth fighting. Get your mum somewhere she can be well looked after and you can visit.
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Good news, I think, as the home we would like has now been sent the SERF so they can at least assess Mum.

Now a new problem has arisen as the Hosp have assessed Mum as needing to be 'line of sight' and '1 to 1 care', this is only because Mum is wandering on what is a medical ward so of course it's inappropriate for the surroundings, there is no clinical reason for the assessment but the problem is most homes don't want a 'line of sight' resident as they don't have enough carers to guarantee safety. Mum is only behaving in what is a completely normal way for a dementia sufferer and her behaviour wouldn't be out of place in a care environment. Waiting to see what the outcome of the preferred home assessment is, but know that they don't accept 'line of sight' . . . the problems just seem to keep on coming!

Thanks to all for the comments - I'm afraid I use this forum sometimes just to vent, but I know that everyone on here will have had or will have the same experiences and that in a strange way is a comfort because sometimes you feel like you are trying to swim in treacle all on your own.
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
5,154
0
Essex
Can I ask if your mum is self-funding? Dad was self-funding and he was also a wanderer. His former home assessed and whilst they initially dubious about how he would settle into respite care he settled in very well and after coming out of respite he went in permanently. The home was small and just right for with other dementia patients at varying degrees I know how you feel but try not to worry.

MaNaAk
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Can I ask if your mum is self-funding? Dad was self-funding and he was also a wanderer. His former home assessed and whilst they initially dubious about how he would settle into respite care he settled in very well and after coming out of respite he went in permanently. The home was small and just right for with other dementia patients at varying degrees I know how you feel but try not to worry.

MaNaAk
Yes Mum will be self funding, but as she is being transferred from hosp the first 6 wks will be paid by the NHS.

Good new is I have this afternoon had confirmation that Mum will be going into my preferred home but apparently the hosp assessment has mentioned Mum takes things from other people! This is a first and very unusual, but I suppose it hasn't been tested before because Mum lived in her own home until just 3 weeks ago.

The home have agreed to a 4 week trial to see if she fits in with the other residents as hopefully the hosp setting has really unsettled her, but if she still has problematic behaviour the group have other homes within a similar mile radius that they can move Mum to.

I think that as family members and carers we end up too close to everything and sometimes don't notice the changes, Mum is obviously much worse and her dementia more advanced than I have been able to see or accept.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,722
0
North West
I'm curious, your mum is entitled to 12 weeks funded care for assessment has anyone told you this? OR has anyone explained why she isn't?

I agree its hard, I lived with my mum so didn't see the changes in the way others did, but now she is in an EMI unit and I see her less frequently I see big changes every other week.

Behaviour is a challenge and my mum went from being a little old lady widowed in her own home to defending her castle from intruders -that was the carers until she went into care.
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
5,154
0
Essex
Yes Mum will be self funding, but as she is being transferred from hosp the first 6 wks will be paid by the NHS.

Good new is I have this afternoon had confirmation that Mum will be going into my preferred home but apparently the hosp assessment has mentioned Mum takes things from other people! This is a first and very unusual, but I suppose it hasn't been tested before because Mum lived in her own home until just 3 weeks ago.

The home have agreed to a 4 week trial to see if she fits in with the other residents as hopefully the hosp setting has really unsettled her, but if she still has problematic behaviour the group have other homes within a similar mile radius that they can move Mum to.

I think that as family members and carers we end up too close to everything and sometimes don't notice the changes, Mum is obviously much worse and her dementia more advanced than I have been able to see or accept.
I wouldn't worry about your mum taking things from other residents as dad's room had a ladies cardigan in it and other residents wore his clothes. @love.dad.but.. has mentioned her dad walking sticks.

MaNaAk
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
I'm curious, your mum is entitled to 12 weeks funded care for assessment has anyone told you this? OR has anyone explained why she isn't?

I agree its hard, I lived with my mum so didn't see the changes in the way others did, but now she is in an EMI unit and I see her less frequently I see big changes every other week.

Behaviour is a challenge and my mum went from being a little old lady widowed in her own home to defending her castle from intruders -that was the carers until she went into care.
I believe she will get the 6 wks funded by the NHS as transferring directly from hosp into care and then we'll enter the 12 week disregard period, which I assume may be what you are referring to ... I think we'll be expected to have sold Mum's property within that time. Everything is soo complicated, I'm learning as I go along, or at least trying to.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,722
0
North West
I believe she will get the 6 wks funded by the NHS as transferring directly from hosp into care and then we'll enter the 12 week disregard period, which I assume may be what you are referring to ... I think we'll be expected to have sold Mum's property within that time. Everything is soo complicated, I'm learning as I go along, or at least trying to.
Ah I see

Its so hard, hoping you find your way with this
 

Frank24

Registered User
Feb 13, 2018
155
0
I believe she will get the 6 wks funded by the NHS as transferring directly from hosp into care and then we'll enter the 12 week disregard period, which I assume may be what you are referring to ... I think we'll be expected to have sold Mum's property within that time. Everything is soo complicated, I'm learning as I go along, or at least trying to.
It’s very stressful when you are trying to work out the finances and you have got someone in hospital wandering not coping. I must say I moved through this part of the process in an absolute daze… the council will get paid back when the property is sold and they won’t hold you to a 12 week situation. They sort of give you a tab and you settle when the property is sold.
 

Miss Elli

Registered User
Apr 9, 2020
66
0
Thank you all for the replies.

Another bump in the road at the begininng of the week as the manager of the care home had a more detailed conversation with the hospital and then decided they wouldn't be able to accommodate Mum's needs! After a very stressful/tearful 8 hrs, the day ended on a new offer from a home that was better suited to Mum's needs and it is in our town, just a 5min drive away - the staff are lovely and it is super clean and bright!!!!!!

I'd had conversations with this particular home over the last 12mths but had discounted them as I didn't think Mum needed that level of care, it just illustrates how little I knew, though maybe Mum's fall has accelerated some of the symptoms. Unbelievable good luck though and just shows that every cloud has a silver lining.

Just got the house to sell now and deal with all of Mum and Dads belongings collected over the years ... even Dad's clothes are still hanging in wardrobes, cleaned and ironed, even though we lost him in 2012 . 😕

It's an incredibly sad time, I feel I have lost Mum but the reality is she's just starting a new life.
 

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
3,080
0
Dorset
Thank you all for the replies.

Another bump in the road at the begininng of the week as the manager of the care home had a more detailed conversation with the hospital and then decided they wouldn't be able to accommodate Mum's needs! After a very stressful/tearful 8 hrs, the day ended on a new offer from a home that was better suited to Mum's needs and it is in our town, just a 5min drive away - the staff are lovely and it is super clean and bright!!!!!!

I'd had conversations with this particular home over the last 12mths but had discounted them as I didn't think Mum needed that level of care, it just illustrates how little I knew, though maybe Mum's fall has accelerated some of the symptoms. Unbelievable good luck though and just shows that every cloud has a silver lining.



It's an incredibly sad time, I feel I have lost Mum but the reality is she's just starting a new life.
It is good to hear that things have worked out well. You have the right attitude, Mum is starting a new life, just as she had to after your Dad died.