NHS CHC Funding Assessment today

[Elle3]

Hi everyone

I thought I'd write this separately from my other two threads which you may or may not have seen ('Crisis point after 9 days in care home' and 'Dad thinks I'm his wife and acts quite inappropriately')

We had my dads CHC funding assessment today at the Care home and I can't believe that it went so well.

After reading lots of posts about funding being turned down etc I had little expectations of my dad being eligible, but the assessors have agreed that he is eligible and it will be referred to the panel, which will take place on Monday.

When they arrived my dad followed us into the room and they said it would be OK for him to sit in, but he could leave if he would get upset when we start talking about him. Whilst we waited for the care home nurse to join us with dads files, they started to ask dad some simple questions and believe it or not he seemed to answer yes to them in context and I was thinking but he's not supposed to be able to understand or communicate well but here he was answering them and looking like he knew what they had said. But that only lasted less than a minute and suddenly dad was mumbling about something totally unrelated, they couldn't understand a word he said and next minute he tells them a boat just went past the window. They then soon realised dad answering yes to questions meant nothing.

We went through each of the 12 points with the nurse asking lots of questions and gathering the evidence and then she would suggest what score she felt should be given to dad and asked us what did we think and if we agreed. We actually agreed with each of her decisions and in some cases she even higher-ed his score as she felt it was more appropriate. He scored Severe for his Behaviour and High for both Cognition and Communication and mostly for the others it was Medium or Low.

Adding up all the scores she said she had no problem referring dad to the panel mainly based on his two high scores for Cognition and Communication. The panel will be meeting on Monday and then I will get a formal letter with the decision.

She said funding would start from today. It would be reviewed in 3 months and then yearly. But she said as it is being awarded based on cognition and communication these will never get better only worse so it's unlikely we will lose the funding.

Dad sat throughout all this either nodding off or just saying nothing, which again confirmed to them that he has no understanding of what is going on around him, so in a way dad being there also went in our favour.

I just can't believe it, I had no pre-conceived notions or expectations that my dad would be eligible, I was told by the home and the SW that we should apply and all I can say now is that I am so happy that we did, I can't tell you how relieved I am and how much of a weight of my mind it will be.

Thank you all for your support on here.

Thanks.
Elle x

 

[stanleypj]

I'm very pleased for you and your dad Elle. From all that we read about CHC funding on TP it's a complete lottery.

 

[MaNaAk]

Hi everyone

I thought I'd write this separately from my other two threads which you may or may not have seen ('Crisis point after 9 days in care home' and 'Dad thinks I'm his wife and acts quite inappropriately')

We had my dads CHC funding assessment today at the Care home and I can't believe that it went so well.

After reading lots of posts about funding being turned down etc I had little expectations of my dad being eligible, but the assessors have agreed that he is eligible and it will be referred to the panel, which will take place on Monday.

When they arrived my dad followed us into the room and they said it would be OK for him to sit in, but he could leave if he would get upset when we start talking about him. Whilst we waited for the care home nurse to join us with dads files, they started to ask dad some simple questions and believe it or not he seemed to answer yes to them in context and I was thinking but he's not supposed to be able to understand or communicate well but here he was answering them and looking like he knew what they had said. But that only lasted less than a minute and suddenly dad was mumbling about something totally unrelated, they couldn't understand a word he said and next minute he tells them a boat just went past the window. They then soon realised dad answering yes to questions meant nothing.

We went through each of the 12 points with the nurse asking lots of questions and gathering the evidence and then she would suggest what score she felt should be given to dad and asked us what did we think and if we agreed. We actually agreed with each of her decisions and in some cases she even higher-ed his score as she felt it was more appropriate. He scored Severe for his Behaviour and High for both Cognition and Communication and mostly for the others it was Medium or Low.

Adding up all the scores she said she had no problem referring dad to the panel mainly based on his two high scores for Cognition and Communication. The panel will be meeting on Monday and then I will get a formal letter with the decision.

She said funding would start from today. It would be reviewed in 3 months and then yearly. But she said as it is being awarded based on cognition and communication these will never get better only worse so it's unlikely we will lose the funding.

Dad sat throughout all this either nodding off or just saying nothing, which again confirmed to them that he has no understanding of what is going on around him, so in a way dad being there also went in our favour.

I just can't believe it, I had no pre-conceived notions or expectations that my dad would be eligible, I was told by the home and the SW that we should apply and all I can say now is that I am so happy that we did, I can't tell you how relieved I am and how much of a weight of my mind it will be.

Thank you all for your support on here.

Thanks.
Elle x

Dear Elle,

I'm very pleased for you. In my area dad's savings have to go below £23500 before he can get a financial assessment so I was wondering if you could tell me more at all especially after i am starting to feel that I am going to have to send dad back to the care home after my latest experience with the new care company.

MaNaAk

 

[Elle3]

Dear Elle,

I'm very pleased for you. In my area dad's savings have to go below £23500 before he can get a financial assessment so I was wondering if you could tell me more at all especially after i am starting to feel that I am going to have to send dad back to the care home after my latest experience with the new care company.

MaNaAk

Hi MaNaAk, NHS Continuing Healthcare has nothing to do with personal funds/savings, my dad is currently self funding and has saving well above that amount plus a house to sell. What it is about is the persons need for care based on an assessment criteria, if they are eligible the NHS will pay for their care.

In my case, we had to apply in the first instance for the assessment through our LA/Social Worker, they do their own assessment then decide if they will to do a referral for a full assessment by the NHS Assessment team.

This is what they look at:

• Behaviour*
• Cognition
• Psychological/Emotional
• Communication
• Mobility
• Nutrition
• Continence
• Skin Integrity
• Breathing*
• Drug therapies and medication: symptom control*
• Altered States of consciousness
• Other things to consider

These are looked at and scored against A, B or C, as appropriate, for each domain. C being no evidence/minimum care required.

A full assessment for NHS continuing healthcare is required if there are:

• two or more domains selected in column A;
• five or more domains selected in column B, or one selected in A and four in B; or
• one domain selected in column A in one of the boxes marked with an asterisk (i.e. those domains that carry a priority level in the Decision Support Tool), with any number of selections in the other two columns.

Here is a link to the NHS website with more details. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support/nhs-continuing-care/

Oh no!, so sorry to hear you are having problems with the new care company, I hope you can get it sorted, although I do say the care home you had your dad in for the respite did sound very nice and he seemed to settle well there.

Take care.
Elle x

 

[Elle3]

I'm very pleased for you and your dad Elle. From all that we read about CHC funding on TP it's a complete lottery.

Thank you, yes I know, I'd read so many posts about people being refused the funding, that I had no expectations of getting it. Maybe we were just lucky.

 

[canary]

I hate to rain on your parade, but you havent got through the panel yet - they are the people who make the decision and its by no means a rubber stamp job. I will keep my fingers crossed for you, but I would hold back on the flags at the moment.

 

[Kevinl]

Whilst I wish you all the luck in the world getting CHC you must have caught them on a good day.
Your dad walked into the room, my wife would have to be brought in in a wheel chair, he answered the questions, my wife can't talk, only make noises.
She can't feed herself and is incontinent, her behaviour can often be challenging and she was turned down for CHC and just given funded nursing care.
There are plenty of residents in the home worse off than my wife and the home manager told me they no longer apply for CHC as it always gets turned down, all they will do is support the family if they want to do an application for CHC.
I'd wait until you get it in writing before I started counting any chickens as it may just be the people doing the assessment were being a bit optimistic and telling you what should happen, the panel have the final say and I wish you luck with that.
K

 

[Elle3]

Thank you @canary and @Kevinl I am aware that the panel may reject it, so yes I know I shouldn't be celebrating just yet. It's just I never really expected for them to even say he was eligible. I will wait for the formal response before doing anymore happy dances, lol. Elle x

 

[Baz22]

Hi Elle

I also hate to rain on your parade but if you have been marked A,B,C that sounds like an initial assessment to determine whether a full assessment is appropriate. I mention this because we had the same and I was told funding would start straight away, which it did not. You could be on what they call a Fast Track assessment and we have had one of those as well which also did not lead to funding.

That said I really hope you get funding. I am now about 9 months down the line with my mothers assessment/appeal and we are having to pay the care costs as well as deal with all the associated hassle. Fingers crossed you win on the CHC Lottery.

Hi everyone

I thought I'd write this separately from my other two threads which you may or may not have seen ('Crisis point after 9 days in care home' and 'Dad thinks I'm his wife and acts quite inappropriately')

We had my dads CHC funding assessment today at the Care home and I can't believe that it went so well.

After reading lots of posts about funding being turned down etc I had little expectations of my dad being eligible, but the assessors have agreed that he is eligible and it will be referred to the panel, which will take place on Monday.

When they arrived my dad followed us into the room and they said it would be OK for him to sit in, but he could leave if he would get upset when we start talking about him. Whilst we waited for the care home nurse to join us with dads files, they started to ask dad some simple questions and believe it or not he seemed to answer yes to them in context and I was thinking but he's not supposed to be able to understand or communicate well but here he was answering them and looking like he knew what they had said. But that only lasted less than a minute and suddenly dad was mumbling about something totally unrelated, they couldn't understand a word he said and next minute he tells them a boat just went past the window. They then soon realised dad answering yes to questions meant nothing.

We went through each of the 12 points with the nurse asking lots of questions and gathering the evidence and then she would suggest what score she felt should be given to dad and asked us what did we think and if we agreed. We actually agreed with each of her decisions and in some cases she even higher-ed his score as she felt it was more appropriate. He scored Severe for his Behaviour and High for both Cognition and Communication and mostly for the others it was Medium or Low.

Adding up all the scores she said she had no problem referring dad to the panel mainly based on his two high scores for Cognition and Communication. The panel will be meeting on Monday and then I will get a formal letter with the decision.

She said funding would start from today. It would be reviewed in 3 months and then yearly. But she said as it is being awarded based on cognition and communication these will never get better only worse so it's unlikely we will lose the funding.

Dad sat throughout all this either nodding off or just saying nothing, which again confirmed to them that he has no understanding of what is going on around him, so in a way dad being there also went in our favour.

I just can't believe it, I had no pre-conceived notions or expectations that my dad would be eligible, I was told by the home and the SW that we should apply and all I can say now is that I am so happy that we did, I can't tell you how relieved I am and how much of a weight of my mind it will be.

Thank you all for your support on here.

Thanks.
Elle x

 

[Elle3]

Hi Elle

I also hate to rain on your parade but if you have been marked A,B,C that sounds like an initial assessment to determine whether a full assessment is appropriate. I mention this because we had the same and I was told funding would start straight away, which it did not. You could be on what they call a Fast Track assessment and we have had one of those as well which also did not lead to funding.

That said I really hope you get funding. I am now about 9 months down the line with my mothers assessment/appeal and we are having to pay the care costs as well as deal with all the associated hassle. Fingers crossed you win on the CHC Lottery.

Hi Baz22, no, this was the full assessment, we have already had the initial assessment on the 13th June with Social Services and they referred my dad to the NHS Assessment team. This happened yesterday and the results of that assessment indicated that he would be eligible and it is going to panel this Monday. So fingers crossed the panel agree with the assessment result and we get the formal letter soon. My SW knows the clerk who will be sitting in on the panel so she's asked her to keep us informed.

It certainly seems like a lottery and I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles trying to get funding for your mother. I wish you the best of luck with your appeal.

Elle x

 

[Jezzer]

Hi everyone

I thought I'd write this separately from my other two threads which you may or may not have seen ('Crisis point after 9 days in care home' and 'Dad thinks I'm his wife and acts quite inappropriately')

We had my dads CHC funding assessment today at the Care home and I can't believe that it went so well.

After reading lots of posts about funding being turned down etc I had little expectations of my dad being eligible, but the assessors have agreed that he is eligible and it will be referred to the panel, which will take place on Monday.

When they arrived my dad followed us into the room and they said it would be OK for him to sit in, but he could leave if he would get upset when we start talking about him. Whilst we waited for the care home nurse to join us with dads files, they started to ask dad some simple questions and believe it or not he seemed to answer yes to them in context and I was thinking but he's not supposed to be able to understand or communicate well but here he was answering them and looking like he knew what they had said. But that only lasted less than a minute and suddenly dad was mumbling about something totally unrelated, they couldn't understand a word he said and next minute he tells them a boat just went past the window. They then soon realised dad answering yes to questions meant nothing.

We went through each of the 12 points with the nurse asking lots of questions and gathering the evidence and then she would suggest what score she felt should be given to dad and asked us what did we think and if we agreed. We actually agreed with each of her decisions and in some cases she even higher-ed his score as she felt it was more appropriate. He scored Severe for his Behaviour and High for both Cognition and Communication and mostly for the others it was Medium or Low.

Adding up all the scores she said she had no problem referring dad to the panel mainly based on his two high scores for Cognition and Communication. The panel will be meeting on Monday and then I will get a formal letter with the decision.

She said funding would start from today. It would be reviewed in 3 months and then yearly. But she said as it is being awarded based on cognition and communication these will never get better only worse so it's unlikely we will lose the funding.

Dad sat throughout all this either nodding off or just saying nothing, which again confirmed to them that he has no understanding of what is going on around him, so in a way dad being there also went in our favour.

I just can't believe it, I had no pre-conceived notions or expectations that my dad would be eligible, I was told by the home and the SW that we should apply and all I can say now is that I am so happy that we did, I can't tell you how relieved I am and how much of a weight of my mind it will be.

Thank you all for your support on here.

Thanks.
Elle x

Hi there. Like others I hate to be negative but this doesn't seem quite right. My mother is bed-bound, unable to do anything - and I do mean anything - for herself but has been refused CHC. Funded Nursing Care only. A senior member of the Adult Mental Health Team told me "you have to be on your deathbed to be granted CHC. Well my mum is there and she is still refused. Good luck.

 

[stanleypj]

Obviously you don't need to be on your deathbed - people sometimes receive it for many months, even years - but it does seem that it is often given when someone is close to death.

 

[Elle3]

Hi there. Like others I hate to be negative but this doesn't seem quite right. My mother is bed-bound, unable to do anything - and I do mean anything - for herself but has been refused CHC. Funded Nursing Care only. A senior member of the Adult Mental Health Team told me "you have to be on your deathbed to be granted CHC. Well my mum is there and she is still refused. Good luck.

Not a problem Jezzer, as I said at the beginning, my expectations of getting it were always low anyway. It's only because of the care home and my dad's SW that we applied and the care home definitely believed he should be eligible based on his ABC charts they keep.

Just so you are aware, the care home my dad is in is a Dementia+ unit and there are currently 12 residents in there and all of them apart from my dad who is currently going through the process have CHC funding. Not one of them is bed bound, on their death bed, immobile or unable to speak etc but they are all challenging in their various ways. Many of them are very active, but that is the problem, their behaviour is unpredictable, requires medical intervention by a nurse as administering medication depends on behaviour and it can't be supplied or decided on just by a carer, they don't understand or can communicate their needs so they are very hard to manage and other EMI care homes would not be able to cope with them.

Elle x

 

[Jezzer]

Obviously you don't need to be on your deathbed - people sometimes receive it for many months, even years - but it does seem that it is often given when someone is close to death.

Hi Stanley No disrespect intended but people can be on their "deathbed" for a very long time. The term "deathbed" should not be misconstrued as meaning imminent death. This particular case has yet to be heard by Panel and whilst I wish the family success, I would suggest caution & waiting for the final decision.

 

[Jezzer]

Not a problem Jezzer, as I said at the beginning, my expectations of getting it were always low anyway. It's only because of the care home and my dad's SW that we applied and the care home definitely believed he should be eligible based on his ABC charts they keep.

Just so you are aware, the care home my dad is in is a Dementia+ unit and there are currently 12 residents in there and all of them apart from my dad who is currently going through the process have CHC funding. Not one of them is bed bound, on their death bed, immobile or unable to speak etc but they are all challenging in their various ways. Many of them are very active, but that is the problem, their behaviour is unpredictable, requires medical intervention by a nurse as administering medication depends on behaviour and it can't be supplied or decided on just by a carer, they don't understand or can communicate their needs so they are very hard to manage and other EMI care homes would not be able to cope with them.

Elle x

I wish you success Elle.

 

[Elle3]

I wish you success Elle.

Thank you Jezzer, if we don't get it, it's not a problem, it will just mean his funds will not last for as long as we first thought due to having to pay double the fees for the Dementia+ unit against what the first EMI care home costs were, which he was in. Then we will be at the mercy of the LA, but not for about 3 years so who knows what will happen until then.

Elle x

 

[stanleypj]

I also wish you success Elle.

 

[love.dad.but..]

Good luck to you Elle and I hope you get it fingers crossed. Dad's NH did a fast track application when he came back from hospital for end of life but unfortunately he died a week later and so apparently it didn't have time to be approved. At dad's NH some get it who do not seem quite as bad as others who are turned down so it does sometimes seem difficult to fathom how they arrive at the decisions and from talking to a few relatives for a positive assessment to stand a good chance they feel it needs the nurse to present the case for well at the meeting and the assessor to have an open mind coming into the assessment among other factors. I meet regularly with 6 wives of current residents...1 is peg fed and cannot communicate bed bound no mobility..had his funding withdrawn as he is managed and she is appealing...another came from another county with CHC as physically aggressive however he is now placid but cannot stand unaided, the funding county reassessed him and CHC is continuing...another who was bedbound and eating very little and thought to be at end of life 2 years ago was awarded and after regular reviews she is eating better and funding still in place...another who has a combination of everything and declined in some areas worse than many others has been refused 3 times..2 other residents who were physically and verbally aggressive came to the NH with CHC in place.....so it really does seem to be a lottery and it shouldn't be. The judgement criteria on what the assessor sees and the panel hear and read should be exactly the same no matter where in the UK. At dad's NH we were always pleased for a resident and relative if CHC was awarded even if our own loved one was refused. Good luck

 

[Jezzer]

Thank you Jezzer, if we don't get it, it's not a problem, it will just mean his funds will not last for as long as we first thought due to having to pay double the fees for the Dementia+ unit against what the first EMI care home costs were, which he was in. Then we will be at the mercy of the LA, but not for about 3 years so who knows what will happen until then.

Elle x

The LA's work in mysterious ways (to put it politely!!!) don't they? As @love.dad.but.. says it is pleasing if another resident receives CHC even if we ourselves are not successful. Keeping everything crossed for you Elle xx

 

[Elle3]

Good luck to you Elle and I hope you get it fingers crossed. Dad's NH did a fast track application when he came back from hospital for end of life but unfortunately he died a week later and so apparently it didn't have time to be approved. At dad's NH some get it who do not seem quite as bad as others who are turned down so it does sometimes seem difficult to fathom how they arrive at the decisions and from talking to a few relatives for a positive assessment to stand a good chance they feel it needs the nurse to present the case for well at the meeting and the assessor to have an open mind coming into the assessment among other factors. I meet regularly with 6 wives of current residents...1 is peg fed and cannot communicate bed bound no mobility..had his funding withdrawn as he is managed and she is appealing...another came from another county with CHC as physically aggressive however he is now placid but cannot stand unaided, the funding county reassessed him and CHC is continuing...another who was bedbound and eating very little and thought to be at end of life 2 years ago was awarded and after regular reviews she is eating better and funding still in place...another who has a combination of everything and declined in some areas worse than many others has been refused 3 times..2 other residents who were physically and verbally aggressive came to the NH with CHC in place.....so it really does seem to be a lottery and it shouldn't be. The judgement criteria on what the assessor sees and the panel hear and read should be exactly the same no matter where in the UK. At dad's NH we were always pleased for a resident and relative if CHC was awarded even if our own loved one was refused. Good luck

Thank you love.dad.but.

I agree it shouldn't be a lottery, there is a definite criteria there with scores, but it's all open to interpretation, which is such a shame.

Elle x