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New capital rules 2023

bensusu

Registered User
Apr 15, 2020
14
0
Hi
My Mum has been in a care home since June 2020, she is self funded and has sold her house. When the new rules start Oct 2023, I know we start again with the capital limit of £86,000 even though by then she will have paid over £100,000, but will the amount change for when we can ask for help go from £23,500 to £100,000, or will she stay under the old amount taper?
Thank you
Sue
 

Cazcaz

Registered User
Apr 3, 2021
264
0
Hi
My Mum has been in a care home since June 2020, she is self funded and has sold her house. When the new rules start Oct 2023, I know we start again with the capital limit of £86,000 even though by then she will have paid over £100,000, but will the amount change for when we can ask for help go from £23,500 to £100,000, or will she stay under the old amount taper?
Thank you
Sue
Don’t forget the £86,000 is only for NURSING care. All residents will have to still pay for the actual costs of the home (eg food, running costs, non-nursing care). That has no limit.
 

GillP

Registered User
Aug 11, 2021
1,450
0
So in effect not many will reach the limit will they? I hadn’t thought about the non nursing care aspect of dementia care and assumed, wrongly, that it would be the care home cost minus the accommodation costs that would be considered.

Presumably this also means that those who are not having nursing care will not be eligible and so will get nothing?

If these things are true, although we don’t know exactly yet, then it seems most will be worse off!
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
3,208
0
High Peak
So in effect not many will reach the limit will they? I hadn’t thought about the non nursing care aspect of dementia care and assumed, wrongly, that it would be the care home cost minus the accommodation costs that would be considered.

Presumably this also means that those who are not having nursing care will not be eligible and so will get nothing?

If these things are true, although we don’t know exactly yet, then it seems most will be worse off!
No, I don't think so. As far as I understand you are right - it's the cost of the care home less the standard accommodation costs that counts towards the cap. It doesn't have to be 'nursing' care, just care.

Perhaps the most important change is to the upper limit for financial assessment - this is rising to £100,000 from the current £23,500. That's the level at which the LA start to contribute to care costs. This will be useful where people are living in their own homes but have carers coming in. For many people their biggest asset is their house but whilst you're still living there it is disregarded in a financial assessment and only your savings are counted. Which basically means if you have less than £100 grand stashed in the bank, you would get help towards the costs of care.

Once you move into care, that frees up the house for inclusion in the assessment (i.e. the house can be sold) and that will take a lot of people over the limit and make them self-funding till they drop below £100,000 total assets.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
25,129
0
North Manchester
Agreed it's all assessed care that counts, not just nursing care.

The change in upper limit is going to cause chaos, overnight self funders with between £23,500 and £100,000 of assets are going to become eligible for LA assistance.

How will the LAs cope with all these assessments, will they sub contract to agencies?
Will homes accept lower LA rates?
EDIT
First party top up to be allowed.
 
Last edited:

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
18,483
0
South coast
Has this actually gone through parliament, or is it still proposed?
If its definitely happening, then this sounds an improvement, even if its not as much as people are expecting and its a logistical nightmare for the LAs; but if its just proposed, then there was nothing in the Queens Speech and I wonder if it will just get kicked into the long grass and lost.
 

GillP

Registered User
Aug 11, 2021
1,450
0
Am I right in thinking that under initial proposals once someone has paid up to the new cap, not sure what it is, then they will not pay any more regardless of assets?

Always assuming it goes through!
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
25,129
0
North Manchester
Am I right in thinking that under initial proposals once someone has paid up to the new cap, not sure what it is, then they will not pay any more regardless of assets?
Yes, not sure about accommodation costs which represent expenditure if living at home.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
3,208
0
High Peak
The standard accommodation costs will continue even after the cap is reached, as I understand it. But I don't know if they stop when someone reaches the lower limit.

I think the other knock-on effect f these plans go ahead is that SS will push for people to move to carehomes because that frees up the house (if there is one) for funding care. So all those people currently 'stuck' with SS due to them saying the PWD still has capacity and refusing to move them to a care home might find it becomes a lot easier... always supposing there's a nice big house to sell...
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
25,129
0
North Manchester
All this is current proposals and could well be changed or kicked along the road.
It's a lot different to the 2011 Dilnot recommendation (2011 prices)
Key recommendations
• The contribution any individual makes towards the costs of their care, excluding general living costs, should be capped at between £25,000 and £50,000, with the Commission recommending the cap should be set at £35,000.
• The asset threshold above which people in residential care are liable for the full cost of their care should be increased from the current level of £23,250 to £100,000.
• People in residential care should make a standard contribution to cover their general living costs of between £7,000 and £10,000 a year.
• Eligibility criteria for services should be set nationally as part of a clear national offer, and needs assessments should be ‘portable’ between local authorities.
• A new information and advice strategy should be developed, a national awareness campaign should be launched to encourage people to plan ahead and the deferred payment scheme should be improved.
• Social care and welfare benefits should be better aligned, Attendance Allowance rebranded and carers’ assessments improved.

• Integration between social care and other services, especially the NHS, should be improved, and a stronger emphasis placed on prevention.
which resulted in the Care Act 2014 where some of the proposals where postponed to a later date.
Since then there have been several tweaks and further postponements.

Probably best just to keep in mind tat sometime next a bill will be presented or everything postponed again.
 

wilko73

Registered User
Feb 8, 2021
185
0
Am I right in thinking that under initial proposals once someone has paid up to the new cap, not sure what it is, then they will not pay any more regardless of assets?

Always assuming it goes through!
i wonder if it's anything like care at home when people reach the lower limit of savings on £14,250 people seem to think that everything is paid by the LA at that stage but it seems that most of peoples pension money is taken to pay for that care
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
11,801
0
Southampton
i wonder if it's anything like care at home when people reach the lower limit of savings on £14,250 people seem to think that everything is paid by the LA at that stage but it seems that most of peoples pension money is taken to pay for that care
even carers at home need paying for. we had a financial assessment. we rent our house, no savings but we will have to pay up to £140 for any care outside of a carehome so even if you dont have assets, you still have to pay something towards it. its not free
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
4,222
0
Midlands
i wonder if it's anything like care at home when people reach the lower limit of savings on £14,250 people seem to think that everything is paid by the LA at that stage but it seems that most of peoples pension money is taken to pay for that care
A contribution is made from the persons pension, yes. It is taken at source