Needs assessment v care assessment

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by tatty, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    Soc worker visit to our home MIL who is 90 has bedroom in our frontroom. POA only for finances as when moved in with us last Nov thought too traumatic to do health and care at the time. Diagnosed with Alzheimer's in March,hearing loss, macular degeneration walks with a stick okay continence, SoC worker decided she has mental capacity even though MIL said she didn't know she was coming or what for even though we had told her several times_so can make own decisions MIl told her this is her home and she doesn't want to consider CH , OH sister was having her for visits which was agreed when she moved in now says too stressful-. Soc worker heavily implied that if MILwanted to stay here then that is what will happen, regardless of her not being safe when we are at work, unable to use the phone, previously pull alarm out of the wall as noise annoyed her when she activated it , hear anyone enter t he house,lock the door,cook , boil the kettle safely or us being able to got out as a family with our teenage daughters for any reasonable length of time . Soc worker did do a carers assessment , though I realise that MIL needs to be happy with move etc. our needs are being ignored.
    Have mentioned respite but doubt she'll go -MIL cross that daughter was out when we phoned her as she wanted to complain about us having assessment done, little does she realise daughter very much in favour and doesn't want to have MIL stay even for a short visit!

    Feel railroaded by husband and his family into being carer in the first place now offering no help, if I knew it would be so hard and no likelyhood of ending care I would have fervently resisted, feel like our needs don't count . Hard luck if I want to see or have my own mum, who lives 200 miles away visit.

    Sorry for the rant but very frustrated:mad::
  2. Cat27

    Cat27 Volunteer Moderator

    Feb 27, 2015
    Welcome to TP :)

    I would arrange to go & see your mum & let your husband look after his own mum for a few days. That may open his eyes.

    If your MIL will be self funding you can arrange the respite yourself.
  3. Boldredrosie

    Boldredrosie Registered User

    Mar 13, 2012
    Oh Tatty, sounds hard. My experience has been that when the person with dementia lives in a family's home then social services are very happy to leave them there regardless of the stress this causes to the family. Even if you're out all the time your presence in the house masks any of the horrors that would be apparent if a person like your MIL lived on her own. Bills paid, food in fridge, floors swept, toilet clean etc... I feel for you.
  4. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    Hi Tatty
    Cat27's idea is a good one - is it feasible?
    How about your mum just happening to call you and ask for you to go and stay as she's just not feeling right and doesn't want to go out but hasn't enough food in.
    It's a bit of a fib - but your husband and his sister need to see what it will be like if you can't care for MiL for a time.
    On your return you can then have a chat with them - how your week away has made you realise that your mum isn't as young as she was, this was a false alarm but what if she did become ill? That you are so tired caring on your own and would appreciate their support in dealing with the SW to push for a care plan with care visits to the home (personal care, respite, day care, a sitter .... a care home). Surely their enforced week of caring will have them realising the sense of what you are suggesting. If not - oh dear, another phone call ...
  5. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks for the words of advice and encouragement ! Oh SIL knows how hard it is that's why she doesn't want her mum to stay! Soc worker suggested ' take your mum down to the housing department tell them she is homelss/you don't want her in your house and they will assess for sheltered accomodation , as she can walk and talk still a care home would not be suitable!'. I repled what about her rights/wishes etc if she is against moving!' Soc worker " oh well that doesn't matter it's not her home , you can make her go'. So very contradictory advice to say the least!

    no knowing if she would pass the assisted housing assessment but soc worker said it's nothing to with her dept._she thinks MIL would pass because MIL told her she can do everything in the 10mins they saw each other!

    Thinks it's going to a slow process- will go and see my mum , half term soon

  6. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    Hi tatty, welcome to TP
    You are as you said "being railroaded" as they say in the army "never volunteer for anything". Until you're at breaking point the SS will do nothing and your sister who has just bailed out as it's "too stressful" is no help either, been there, done that got the T-shirt. You need to get some sort of best interest meeting where you can say; she's a danger left o her own, she needs more care than you can supply and she is at risk.
    It sounds from what you've said she no longer can safely be left alone so SS have to do something in her "best interests" but get it done in writing, e-mail will do, when you put it all in a paper trail that can be used "in court" then their attitude may well change.
    The SS are quite happy to leave it to the family, saves them money and the family going like it too, preserves their inheritance, like I say got the T-shirt.
    You don't say (and don't have to have to) when she moved in did she sell a house, what's her net worth, if she'll be self funding at a grand a week might your sister change her mind?
    No one can be made to be a carer, difficult to say when it's your OH mum but ultimately it's not your problem, don't be a doormat, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind (as the song says).
  7. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    #7 Shedrech, Oct 17, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2015
    Morning Tatty
    Wholly agree with Kevini
    I was gently trying to say that it's your husband who needs to see it as it really is, with you out of the house - clearly SiL has seen the reality, doesn't like it and has withdrawn, so she too needs to know that there will be situations when she can't leave it to YOU (not her brother and you). And they both need to understand that you have a mother of your own to consider.
    Without your husband on your side it will be very difficult to change much (you need a united front to tackle SS), unless you down tools.
    Boldrosie and Kevini are right, as you have discovered, SS will happily let you carry on caring awaiting a crisis. Rubbish comment about 'talk and walk' - my dad can do both BUT ... I won't go into details here.
    Has your MiL been awarded Attendance Allowance? If so, show your husband again what was written to gain it and explain that things are worse now with details ie list out EVERYTHING (and I mean every small and large kind of support) YOU do for his mother AND the impact it has on YOUR life ie what you can no longer do or have had to adapt. Sometimes seeing the very long list in black and white can shock into seeing the situation as it really is.
    If you haven't applied for AA, do so - same effect hopefully. Then get Carer's Allowance for you. You may even be eligible for a reduction in Council Tax (may not). Then YOU use as much of this money as you can to get home care visits at least. I assume your MiL pays a fair share of living expenses.
    Also if the SW deems your MiL has capacity get the LPA for health and welfare done!
    No-one really wants to go into a care home - but sometimes, everything weighed up a family has to pursue this. If you read around the threads on TP you'll find quite a few that discuss how to go about this.
    I fear a tough conversation with your husband is fast approaching.
    Apologies if I have misread the situation.
    Best wishes
  8. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015

    Thanks for all posts , have managed to help OH see the light, he has less patienc than me with MIL but as his mum looked afterher dad who had had a stroke for 14years I think he felt that he needed to try the same! However his grandad was younger and mentally competent and slowly became dependent But when he went into a home for the last year of his life the extended family (there are millions ofthem!) would not speak to MIL for puting her dad in a home so thats the resitance but I think at last he has owned up its too much and can't go on.

    Yes MIl has had AA for years due to mobilty and eyesight problems , no she has no asset over threshold another reason SS aren't keen as they would be liable for costs. As we both work me part time I am pretty sure we are over any threshold for carers allowance.

    Will have to play the game with housing and their assesment system of MIL ability, yes will do POA already to print, filling in a carer assessment this weekend and finance people coming out on Tuesday, see what progress can be made. MIl has brain scan on Monday-but of course she could refuse on the day!!
  9. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    MIl has brain scan on Monday-but of course she could refuse on the day!![/QUOTE]

    Dont remind her beforehand, just tell her on the day that she has a hospital appointment, or if you think even that would upset her tell her that you are going for coffee and just popping into the hospital on the way. You can, of course, go for coffee afterwards (we just have to do this mum, then we can have that coffee........)
  10. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    Hi again Tatty
    there's always a backstory isn't there - and I understand your husband's viewpoint now.
    So actually good on him for giving it a go and now realising that it's time to look at alternatives. You sound like a good team. His family can't say he hasn't done all he can with your sterling backing, and his mother's 'honour' has been upheld. Shame they didn't all muck in too! (bit too much do as I say not as I do?)
    Yes, it's time t0 pay the game for all it's worth - but if the 2 of you are now in agreement at least you're playing doubles not singles.
    Canary is right - don't tell MiL, just go out for something pleasant and happen to pop in to the hospital on the way ;)
  11. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    Radcliffe on Trent
    I often read advice suggesting carers write something when they go to appointments 'telling it how it is' as people with dementia can be very convincing about what they can do to look after themselves, especially to strangers, and it can be hard to contradict when the person is present at the meeting.You could the same with the housing department, make sure they are made aware of everything you do now and what MIL's true situation is. Hard to ignore if you put it in writing.
  12. Chuggalug

    Chuggalug Registered User

    Mar 24, 2014
    Think this person needs to be reported for giving bad, if not outright dangerous, advice. Is s/he not aware of how hard it is to get social housing these days? The poor woman would be in a right pickle if she had to fend for herself like that. It's called abandonment in my book, Tatty. What a thing to tell you.

    Whatever state of health your Mum has at the moment, we all know there's deterioration to come, and she should be helped and supported by these so-called professionals. It comes to something when they can brush a person off like that. How can carers cope with that? :mad::(

    Really sorry that's been said to you.
  13. tatty

    tatty Registered User

    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks all for your encouraging replies, the plot thickens as MIL went to her church back in town 25minutes drive from our house that my husband takes her back to everyweek she's been living here (apart from his birthday a Sunday) he sits in the park or goes to Costa _ on going back to collect her she was with the blue rinse brigrade whoms she has told ahe was 'moving into a home on Friday, not seen it dont know where it is!!'. Her pals suggested ahome in the same street as the church which takes dementia patients as then she could come to all the church events (she was very active in the past) they also said there is definitely vacancies.

    So now MIL very entusiastic as long as its that home as her frend said there are spaces it must be true , called care home private but does take council funded residents BUT no spaces avialable at the moment, a resonable suggestion but wish they had discussed it with OH out of MIL hearing as now she thinks that is where shes' going and will consider nothing else.

    Just wondering if anyone has any experinece/knowledge of L.A funding out of borough homes I know its possible but does it actually happen in reality she obviously has stong links to the area having lived there since being bombed out of London in wW2? and wtill lots of friends


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