My father is aggressive

[tonynortheast]

One of the issues that needs to be voiced loud and clear at the meeting is the health and safety of domiciliary carers and visiting nurses. If your father goes home with a care package everyone who enters his home will be at KNOWN risk of verbal and physical violence. I would like to think that SS managers would take this into account.

Just because he wants everyone to **** off and leave him alone doesn't mean he can be allowed to have his way. At home anybody could be at risk from his aggression, including the postman and the neighbours.

We are all rooting for you. Practice your mantra like a stuck record. Once you've said it out loud to yourself 20 times you will be able to repeat it to the people who need to hear it. "I cannot, and will not, take responsibility for my father's care at home. I am done with it."

Hi Katrine
Another member with great advice. You guys are helping me through this. It's so hard but I know for my own sanity I have to go through with this
My biggest fear is if they try him at home he lives only 20 yards away.

Surely this has to be taken into account. We have even considered leaving and going somewhere else to live

 

[canary]

If he already has a DoL then they do not have to take account of his wishes and I cant honestly see anyone sending him home.
Even if they do think about it, just say very clearly that you are not prepared to take any responsibility for your father as you are afraid of physical abuse.

 

[tonynortheast]

If he already has a DoL then they do not have to take account of his wishes and I cant honestly see anyone sending him home.
Even if they do think about it, just say very clearly that you are not prepared to take any responsibility for your father as you are afraid of physical abuse.

Hi all
I think without TPoint I don't think I would have got through as far as this
Latest development is McMillan say my father has been moved off the palliative care unit as they do not think his change in behaviour is due to the cancer. He is now on ward 8 and this specialises in geriatric medicine He remains under a deprivation of liberty order under a psychiatric expert they say
Does this do you feel undermine our hopes for a complete care package or care home ?

 

[Katrine]

Hi all
I think without TPoint I don't think I would have got through as far as this
Latest development is McMillan say my father has been moved off the palliative care unit as they do not think his change in behaviour is due to the cancer. He is now on ward 8 and this specialises in geriatric medicine He remains under a deprivation of liberty order under a psychiatric expert they say
Does this do you feel undermine our hopes for a complete care package or care home ?

Don't know Tony, but I would have thought he is now in the best place for expert assessment. If his consultant is a geriatric psychiatrist / psycho geriatrician then this sounds as if they understand the complexity of his mental condition.

 

[Bod]

I too think this is going in the right direction.
There is cause to think about the light at the end of the tunnel.

Bod

 

[Owly]

A "complete care package" will be carers coming in and out for a certain time, not all day care. They may not be allocated time to deal with soiled laundry (on top of washing him) or fetching his shopping. You don't want to hope for a care package as it sounds as if only a care home will do the trick. If he comes home with a care package, it is likely that the carers will quickly report back to base that his needs are such that they cannot be dealt with in a (typically) 20 minute visit.

I would go to any meeting and if he lets rip at you, then that is great evidence that you are at risk from his aggression. You could point out that the relationship between you has clearly broken down.

You can also play to them the voice recordings on your phone where he has said aggressive things that demonstrate that you and your wife are at risk.

Hopefully he doesn't have a key to your house, so if he turns up, you simply do not answer the door. If he stands out there ranting and possibly getting the neighbours involved, then call the police.

The best solution is obviously if they discharge him straight from his psychiatric ward into a secure care or nursing home.

 

[tonynortheast]

A "complete care package" will be carers coming in and out for a certain time, not all day care. They may not be allocated time to deal with soiled laundry (on top of washing him) or fetching his shopping. You don't want to hope for a care package as it sounds as if only a care home will do the trick. If he comes home with a care package, it is likely that the carers will quickly report back to base that his needs are such that they cannot be dealt with in a (typically) 20 minute visit.

I would go to any meeting and if he lets rip at you, then that is great evidence that you are at risk from his aggression. You could point out that the relationship between you has clearly broken down.

You can also play to them the voice recordings on your phone where he has said aggressive things that demonstrate that you and your wife are at risk.

Hopefully he doesn't have a key to your house, so if he turns up, you simply do not answer the door. If he stands out there ranting and possibly getting the neighbours involved, then call the police.


The best solution is obviously if they discharge him straight from his psychiatric ward into a secure care or nursing home.

Hi Owly
Many thanks for your thoughtful and valued view. So many experienced and wonderfully supportive people on here
I agree with you and have discovered myself in a relatively short period of time what constitutes a full care package.
My strong view is that even a complete care programme would not be sufficient in my dads case. He really needs 24/7 as he is a danger to himself through the night as well. They are watching him 24/7 in the hospital at the minute and have noticed his behaviours through the night as well.
He has even according to McMillan nurse also been physically aggressive to nursing staff as well
I'm adamant I cannot accept responsibility for his care and hopeful as he has a deprivation of liberty order and is at the moment deemed as not having mental capacity that they will do what is in his best interests and what my GP considers to be the most appropriate choice of a CH.
IF and it is now a big IF they send him home I think I would actually look to move house
I'm assured this is unlikely but if necessary I'm willing to do that.
Probably gives you all a measure of how afraid we are of him.
My GP is of the opinion best to stay away from any proposed meeting as they have already witnessed his aggression and it would only prove to be upsetting

 

[tonynortheast]

Hi Owly
Many thanks for your thoughtful and valued view. So many experienced and wonderfully supportive people on here
I agree with you and have discovered myself in a relatively short period of time what constitutes a full care package.
My strong view is that even a complete care programme would not be sufficient in my dads case. He really needs 24/7 as he is a danger to himself through the night as well. They are watching him 24/7 in the hospital at the minute and have noticed his behaviours through the night as well.
He has even according to McMillan nurse also been physically aggressive to nursing staff as well
I'm adamant I cannot accept responsibility for his care and hopeful as he has a deprivation of liberty order and is at the moment deemed as not having mental capacity that they will do what is in his best interests and what my GP considers to be the most appropriate choice of a CH.
IF and it is now a big IF they send him home I think I would actually look to move house
I'm assured this is unlikely but if necessary I'm willing to do that.
Probably gives you all a measure of how afraid we are of him.
My GP is of the opinion best to stay away from any proposed meeting as they have already witnessed his aggression and it would only prove to be upsetting

Update on my situation
Rather upsettingly today my dad has now been sectioned under the mental capacity act and will soon be moved to a psychiatric unit
I remain afraid to visit him but at the same time feel terrible guilt he is left alone with no visitors
The isolation and feeling of being abandoned breaks my heart as much as it must his
I hope one day to visit him should he calm down but I am not expecting too much
Strangely enough my biggest fear now that he is sectioned is if he improved his mental capacity and they send him home with care in place. As we live so close it fills me with fear
If I'm honest I really don't expect my dad ever to get home again and hand on heart I feel that is in his best interests
If this happens can anyone advise on rules around power of attorney as his flat would have to be cleared etc etc eventually

 

[chrisdee]

Dear Tony, please be kind to yourself. Many of us have read your posts and your fear comes through so strongly that we can 'feel it from here'. Using your POA and that fact that he def. lacks capacity, I think you can say 'no way' especially with the Doctor on your side. Advancing dementia is bad enough to deal with, let alone the chance of your health sinking into chronic anxiety? Hopefully things will turn out for the best.

 

[Bod]

You have lasting Power of Attorney, for Health & Welfare, and Property & Finance?
Then you will be able to close up and dispose of his house.
The added advantage of that is he will not be able to return, whether he wants to or not!

Bod

 

[tonynortheast]

Many of you who have been following this will know that my dad was sectioned last Friday. I am sorry to say he has passed away in the early hours of today in hospital. My greatest regret is not getting to see him alive one last time as he was so aggressive towards me. I spent 16 months looking after him to the best of my ability. Taking him places he had not been for 30 years. Theatre/ movies/ concerts/ days out / meals etc etc many happy moments but as many of these things very sour and devastating towards the end. Particularly hard to deal with was his aggression towards myself and threats. He clearly wasn't himself. I am writing this last post to thank the forum and all its members who have offered such wonderful insight and advice. If it wasn't for you guys I would have found all of this so much more difficult so a huge and genuine thank you to all of you and the Alzheimer's Society for your support
Kind regards and best wishes to you all
Tony

 

[nellbelles]

Tony so sorry hear your sad news, try not to dwell too much on missing his last days, you know he loved you before dementia. My sincere condolences to you and your family.

 

[Pickles53]

Sending my deepest sympathy to you and your family.

 

[flowerpetals]

Dear Tony,

I am so sorry for the loss of your father. Please remember that he did love you even though he was aggressive. When my Dad was diagnosed with terminally ill lung cancer, it completely changed him, he was so sad and withdrawn, just not the same man at all. It's a huge shock to know that you are dying. The dementia would make this 10 times worse in your Dad's case. It was not him, it was the disease. But now he is free from all pain and suffering.

I wish you and your family love and peace. You will get through this awful time with love. X

 

[canary]

Tony, I am so sorry, particularly that you didnt get to see your dad at the end. That was no ay your fault, though, and please remember that you did your very best to do what was best for him.

 

[Owly]

Tony....

Even at the end, you did what was best for him because if you had visited, it would most likely have aroused his aggression. Now he is free and you are free of the fear you had of him. Please try to remember the lovely times you had together, not just the "evening" of his life, remember the happy daytime as he would want you to do.

(((((hugs))))) from Owly

 

[chrisdee]

My sincere condolences Tony. You have been the best son possible under the most trying of circumstances. I know its difficult to get the last days out of your head, but you will eventually treasure the better memories. I am grieving my Mum too, its hard.

 

[Roses40]

My sincere condolences Tony. I have followed your thread and have felt your pain. Give yourself a pat on the back for dealing with your dads journey. Love to you and yours x

 

[VonVee]

My father is in the palliative care ward and clearly has signs of dementia. Recently he has become very aggressive/ delusional and shows acute confusion. I am so distressed I am off work and cannot even talk to him. He is refusing medication at his ownhome and is soiling the bed. He refuses any form of home help and as a full time main breadwinner I cannot cope. He lives on his own.
Desperate for advice / help
McMillan nurse already involved as he has lung cancer plus of course district nurse
What are my rights. I am not his official carer and receive no financial help. He refuses to use his attendance allowance to pay for home help.

Oh my hon, ok get yourself power of attorney NOW, ( disability Wessex or diverse abilities plus) did mine, a great helpful knowledgable charity, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a solicitor.. and get yourself registered as a carer NOW also, I am registered now myself, and it give you a lot of advice for support groups, and they give you money towards break for you, plus cinema tickets and spar treatments once a month, I had a carers assessment with my SW hon, so ask yours for help NOW my love before you end up having a nervous breakdown, and you don't want that.
my heart goes out to you, but I've learnt that if you don't ask, you don't get, so get going and ask ask ask.. Ok.. Xx

 

[Bod]

Your all in better places now.

Bod