My father 79 year old, dementia?

[HelloKitty]

My father is 79 years old, after restrictions were being lifted, overnight visits allowed, I travelled other end country to visit and bring him back to stay at mine. Now he's been here 4 months and won't go back home.

He had bother with his neighbours recently and I had to report it to housing. Housing officer went round and reported back to me suggesting he has mental health issues and had trouble telling him some recent events but had no problem talking about matters decades back.

Anyway my father seems to think he doesn't have a home down there and he's become very argumentive and aggressive, comes on for no reason. I've noticed he can't finish sentences, like a simple word will be missing off and he's trying figure out the rest of sentence.

He has no intention of going back home and 4mths now he's been here, honestly I thought he'd be staying a month or so. My house is under extensive repairs and his mobility is very poor also, my bathroom is upstairs and it takes him some time to get upstairs, he goes weeks without a bath. He smells strong of urine ,has no interest in changing clothes regularly and I know the downstairs toilet floor which we don't usually use ( it's bare floorboards) is saturated in urine.
A few months back I spoke to a GP over the phone as I was wanting to downgrade his social housing as the house is no good for his needs, council want a letter, it was also suggested by housing officer he moves to ground level property. I expressed concern other issues were maybe going on but the response was of he managing pay bills he OK... Well I think matters have progressed further.
My father has read the letter from housing officer and insists he's fine and it's everyone else who needs go seek Dr help not him. He fell over earlier in year and wouldn't go to hospital... I only found out when I called him, he then argued all day over it and between phonecalls to nhs he finally decided he'll accept an ambulance on the evening.
He fell over not so long back and in general looks like he'll get lost easily... We went out for the day and we sat opposite public toilets, he went in and come back out and was starting to walk wrong way. That's becoming a problem going anywhere now, he takes more watching than toddlers and I've had a few children of my own.

He won't see anyone, if I call up social services and other authorities, he's going go totally off it and it's me who will have the arguments to deal with... I also have children at home.

 

[canary]

Hello @HelloKitty and welcome to Talking Point.

We cannot make diagnoses on here and I am not a doctor, but everything you have described (especially the bathroom problems and the getting lost) is screaming at me - mid to late stage dementia. I can understand your desire to scoop your dad up, bring him back to your home and make everything better, but unfortunately, after 4 months, you have made yourself his carer.

I think it very likely that your dad has forgotten all about his own home and probably thinks that your home is his - which is why he he is refusing to move. It is also par for the course for people with dementia to lose insight into their own condition and never believe that they have anything wrong with them. You will not be able to get him to agree to anything by reasoning and persuasion, Im afraid. It will all have to be done by subterfuge and "love lies".

Firstly, I think that you need to get your dad to agree to POA. You dont have to use a solicitor - you can download and print the forms yourself. The only problem is finding someone who has known him for 2 years. Is there anyone you can ask to do this? Present this to your dad as something normal "just in case something happens" and dont say its because you are worried about him etc.

Secondly, you need towards getting a diagnosis. Write a letter to his GP (is he registered at your surgery?) explaining all your concerns. Some GPs are willing to invite them to a "well man" appointment or for a "medication review" in order to get him to go. Make sure you go in with him at at appointments.

Thirdly, you can ask for a needs assessment from Social Services (you dont need a diagnosis for this) to see what help can be offered to you. Ultimately, I think your dad will need a care home, but unless he has assets (does he have a property he can sell?) you will be dependant on the Local Authority for funding and will have to jump through their hoops.

 

[HelloKitty]

Hello @HelloKitty and welcome to Talking Point.

We cannot make diagnoses on here and I am not a doctor, but everything you have described (especially the bathroom problems and the getting lost) is screaming at me - mid to late stage dementia. I can understand your desire to scoop your dad up, bring him back to your home and make everything better, but unfortunately, after 4 months, you have made yourself his carer.

I think it very likely that your dad has forgotten all about his own home and probably thinks that your home is his - which is why he he is refusing to move. It is also par for the course for people with dementia to lose insight into their own condition and never believe that they have anything wrong with them. You will not be able to get him to agree to anything by reasoning and persuasion, Im afraid. It will all have to be done by subterfuge and "love lies".

Firstly, I think that you need to get your dad to agree to POA. You dont have to use a solicitor - you can download and print the forms yourself. The only problem is finding someone who has known him for 2 years. Is there anyone you can ask to do this? Present this to your dad as something normal "just in case something happens" and dont say its because you are worried about him etc.

Secondly, you need towards getting a diagnosis. Write a letter to his GP (is he registered at your surgery?) explaining all your concerns. Some GPs are willing to invite them to a "well man" appointment or for a "medication review" in order to get him to go. Make sure you go in with him at at appointments.

Thirdly, you can ask for a needs assessment from Social Services (you dont need a diagnosis for this) to see what help can be offered to you. Ultimately, I think your dad will need a care home, but unless he has assets (does he have a property he can sell?) you will be dependant on the Local Authority for funding and will have to jump through their hoops.

 

[HelloKitty]

No, he just has a rented council house.
Like I say he came to visit and refusing to leave.

He's not registered up with any services here as not officially living here, he come just as visitor.

He will refuse to see anyone, he is not on any medication at all and not been to his Dr's at all apart from when he was referred over his leg to a physio which he attended but it didn't help, otherwise apart from that he basically not ever been for decades, he's never been ill so far as he's concerned he's not see any Dr for anything.

He won't have nothing to do with social services so won't have a care assessment, he simply won't engage, he's always been stubborn.

 

[canary]

Basically, you dont engage him - you just do it. You are not going to be able to get him to agree to move back home - I feel certain that by this stage he will think that your home is his home. - nor will you be able to persuade him to see a doctor or agree to a SS needs assessment. If afraid that unless you organise things and take matters into your own hands nothing will change.

 

[HelloKitty]

Basically, you dont engage him - you just do it. You are not going to be able to get him to agree to move back home - I feel certain that by this stage he will think that your home is his home. - nor will you be able to persuade him to see a doctor or agree to a SS needs assessment. If afraid that unless you organise things and take matters into your own hands nothing will change.

He won't agree to a POA.
He won't agree to anything and as I say my house isn't suitable living for him, nothing is adapted for someone with his mobility needs either, that's before the deeper mental health conditions.

 

[MartinWL]

What an awful situation for you. I suspect some others may underestimate the difficulty of getting him to go home by love lies or subterfuge. First question that occurs to me here is whether he can go home at all. Would he be safe living alone? If not then you're really looking for options to move him out of your own home. Depending on his capabilities that means sheltered housing or a care home. You can insist. He is a guest in your house and you can require him to leave. You have children in the house too and you will obviously want to prioritise their care.

I also suggest you should apply to the Court of Protection to become his deputy. He won't agree to POA and arguably hasn't got capacity to sign it anyway as he has no understanding of his condition. The first requirement to have capacity is understanding information given in relation to a decision. Deputyship will give you the right to manage his financial affairs and make decisions about where he lives. It will take time so I suggest you start the ball rolling at once. His refusal to cooperate will make it difficult but if you post here about each hurdle as you get to it you are bound to find that someone else has been there and got the t-shirt.

If he would be safe in his own home then you are going to have to find a way to get him back there and leave him there, which is easier said than done. But still go for Deputyship as he is alas only going to get worse.

 

[DesperateofDevon]

No, he just has a rented council house.
Like I say he came to visit and refusing to leave.

He's not registered up with any services here as not officially living here, he come just as visitor.

He will refuse to see anyone, he is not on any medication at all and not been to his Dr's at all apart from when he was referred over his leg to a physio which he attended but it didn't help, otherwise apart from that he basically not ever been for decades, he's never been ill so far as he's concerned he's not see any Dr for anything.

He won't have nothing to do with social services so won't have a care assessment, he simply won't engage, he's always been stubborn.

Contact your own GP surgery & explain the issues
they can register him at Your address & access the help you need on the same day . I know this as my own surgery had offered to do this with my Mum.
This is your first point of contact in accessing the help you need to get your fathers care needs met.
Hope this helps
x

 

[HelloKitty]

What an awful situation for you. I suspect some others may underestimate the difficulty of getting him to go home by love lies or subterfuge. First question that occurs to me here is whether he can go home at all. Would he be safe living alone? If not then you're really looking for options to move him out of your own home. Depending on his capabilities that means sheltered housing or a care home. You can insist. He is a guest in your house and you can require him to leave. You have children in the house too and you will obviously want to prioritise their care.

I also suggest you should apply to the Court of Protection to become his deputy. He won't agree to POA and arguably hasn't got capacity to sign it anyway as he has no understanding of his condition. The first requirement to have capacity is understanding information given in relation to a decision. Deputyship will give you the right to manage his financial affairs and make decisions about where he lives. It will take time so I suggest you start the ball rolling at once. His refusal to cooperate will make it difficult but if you post here about each hurdle as you get to it you are bound to find that someone else has been there and got the t-shirt.

If he would be safe in his own home then you are going to have to find a way to get him back there and leave him there, which is easier said than done. But still go for Deputyship as he is alas only going to get worse.

Yes, his own home other end country, so we can't exactly just drop him off there and say I be back round tomorrow to see you etc

Well he insists he can manage but truth is my mother before she died for decades she would do everything for him, even getting out his clothes, she was a slave to him and I'm not wanting to turn out to be same.

 

[DesperateofDevon]

Both my Mum & Dad were in different counties but if you have a supportive GP at your local practice things can be sorted out
??

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @HelloKitty, Is there anyway you could take your father back home and stay for a week or two to get the ball rolling on getting some help for him? The other option is to contact your GP and local social services and see what help they can offer.
If you wait for your father to decide to do something you'll be waiting for ever.

 

[MartinWL]

Hi @HelloKitty, Is there anyway you could take your father back home and stay for a week or two to get the ball rolling on getting some help for him? The other option is to contact your GP and local social services and see what help they can offer.
If you wait for your father to decide to do something you'll be waiting for ever.

I think actually that's a really good idea - if he is potentially able to look after himself. If he will never be safe at home then of course that isn't a "runner".

 

[HelloKitty]

Hi @HelloKitty, Is there anyway you could take your father back home and stay for a week or two to get the ball rolling on getting some help for him? The other option is to contact your GP and local social services and see what help they can offer.
If you wait for your father to decide to do something you'll be waiting for ever.

He's adamant he won't go back, particularly because of his neighbour. It was suggested by council officer he should downgrade his property to sonething on lower level but despite me doing the application, it's still not completed.

I'm afraid to do anything up here as he kick off and it be me and my children who be taking brunt of it.

If I'd known it come to all this I wouldn't travelled down, on other hand he would jumped on trains and got here.

 

[DesperateofDevon]

He's adamant he won't go back, particularly because of his neighbour. It was suggested by council officer he should downgrade his property to sonething on lower level but despite me doing the application, it's still not completed.

I'm afraid to do anything up here as he kick off and it be me and my children who be taking brunt of it.

If I'd known it come to all this I wouldn't travelled down, on other hand he would jumped on trains and got here.

Seriously phone or email your GP tomorrow please, explain to the receptionist the situation & state you are worried that you will be at the brunt of his temper , he won’t go home etc

Your GP can get stuff actioned very quickly xx

 

[canary]

If he kicks off badly you may be best calling the police. This is not as drastic as it sounds as the police are used to this sort of scenario and have the authority to call the Community Psychiatric team who would be able to get the ball rolling for diagnosis/care. They would also send in a report to Social Services who would then have him on their radar.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I'm really afraid that no one is going to help you with this unless something bad happens or you shout very loudly. SS and medics are all going to refuse on the grounds that 'he doesn't want to go home' without offering you any alternative help.

I honestly think (as @canary suggests) you're going to have to either force the situation or tell your father he has to go home then face the melt down. When that happens, you must phone the police/ambulance. Tell them your dad is raving uncontrollably and you fear for the safety of yourself and your children.

Unfortunately it's probably the only way to force the hand of the professionals.

 

[HelloKitty]

I'm really afraid that no one is going to help you with this unless something bad happens or you shout very loudly. SS and medics are all going to refuse on the grounds that 'he doesn't want to go home' without offering you any alternative help.

I honestly think (as @canary suggests) you're going to have to either force the situation or tell your father he has to go home then face the melt down. When that happens, you must phone the police/ambulance. Tell them your dad is raving uncontrollably and you fear for the safety of yourself and your children.

Unfortunately it's probably the only way to force the hand of the professionals.

That's the trouble with authorities, I do know they fob folk off.

 

[Kapow]

Seriously phone or email your GP tomorrow please, explain to the receptionist the situation & state you are worried that you will be at the brunt of his temper , he won’t go home etc

Your GP can get stuff actioned very quickly xx

I agree...it's very,very difficult but with your Gp's help the ball could at least get rolling...

 

[Banjomansmate]

I think you will need to try to get him back to his own home somehow because, assuming he has no property to sell or a large amount in savings, it will be his Local Authority that will have to approve funding for further care in whatever form he needs.

 

[HelloKitty]

I think you will need to try to get him back to his own home somehow because, assuming he has no property to sell or a large amount in savings, it will be his Local Authority that will have to approve funding for further care in whatever form he needs.

It's getting him back there, it is over 300 miles away and he insisting he's not going back. He doesn't have any property to sell or savings.
He's at mine as a visitor and there noway I'm registering him here as I can see what happen, authorities will fob him off over at mine, like I said my house isn't suitable for him mobility wise and I'm not getting any adaptions either, I don't want any disabled facilities grant etc, I basically want him gone, he's toxic and used to beat my mother up years back. She didn't leave him and was like a slave to him, I don't want same thing.