Mutual Power of Attorney

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Grannie G, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,659
    Kent
    Because my husband is clinging to control of his own finances, as a last vestige of his independence, I have been been wary of broaching the subject of a POA in case I caused more anguish. I have also been put off by some of the difficulties experienced by TP members.

    With the help of my local Carer`s Voice Support Group, who suggested I get round this by arranging Mutual POAs, I was given the names of solicitors who have approached MIND, re their suitability to process Wills and POAs for people with mental health conditions.

    Today I saw a solicitor.

    I went by myself first, to prepare the ground for my very sensitive husband, but really, I had no need. He was quiet and gentle, and understood my concerns. He will contact my husband`s consultant to verify he understands the meaning of a POW, and meanwhile will draw up the necessary document. The total cost will be £120.

    I want to share this in case others have been discouraged by what they have heard. I came away with a molehill made out of a mountain.
     
  2. Ashburton

    Ashburton Registered User

    Feb 19, 2007
    99
    Does one have to get a POA, the reason I ask is that we have joint accounts and so have not seen the need for it.
     
  3. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Grannie G, I don't want to upset your molehill - but are you securing a POA or an EPA - they are distinctively different?

    Love, Karen, x
     
  4. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    I am sure the Solicitor will be preparing an Enduring POA. The difference is that a normal POA is automatically revoked when the person becomes 'mentally incapable' of managing their financial affairs. An enduring POA 'endures' even if the person becomes mentally incapable.

    I find that it is better if both husband and wife do an Enduring POA as it makes it easier on the more vulnerable person. They perhaps feel that they are not being singled out and are reassured that their spouse is also preparing for the future.

    Be aware that the current EPA will be changed at the end of this month and if an EPA has not been done it should if possible be done by the 31st March

    Sue
     
  5. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,659
    Kent
    We have joint accounts for everything except ISAs, but our consultant still reccommended POAs.
    I am aware of the 31st. March changes, and we are on holiday from 23rd-30th. March too.
    I trust the solicitor will act in our best interests.
    I can only do what I can do.
     
  6. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Dear Sylvia,

    Don't want to be all doom and gloom but we solicitors are trained to think what if...

    What if God forbid something were to happen to you? Who would look after your husband's financial affairs? I presume you are appointing a third person who would then act. We Solicitors are a miserable lot who sometimes only see the bad side of things. No one ever comes to see us to tell us what a great marriage they have...only that they want a divorce..etc. It can give us a twisted view of life if you let it!

    But there's nothing wrong with covering all bases.:)

    sue xx
     
  7. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,659
    Kent
    Thanks Sue.
    Our son is joint tenant for our house and he will be named as 3rd person. As we only have one child, it simplifies matters. There`s no-one to contest.
    We are very lucky to have you on TP.
    With love
     
  8. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I think when it comes to registering the EPA then the 3 nearest relatives still have to be notified. That would include yourself and your son if you were registering your husband's EPA. It can work out to more than 3 if there are more than that number of the same status - ie if siblings were the 'next in line' and there were 4 of them then all of them would need to be informed etc.
     
  9. Lila13

    Lila13 Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    1,342
    And particularly difficult if relations live in a different country far away.

    Lila
     
  10. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    A relative can be discounted if 'his address is not known to, and cannot reasonably be ascertained by, the attorney'.

    The donor also needs to be served with notice and this must be done personally.

    Sue
     
  11. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Just checked the Public Guardianship web site and it seems date for doing an existing EPA has been moved to October 2007

    Sue
     
  12. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,659
    Kent
    Thank you Sue, for the 2nd time. I`ve already thanked you following your reply to Panda. Just shows how valuable you are.;)
     
  13. jane-anne

    jane-anne Registered User

    Poa

    My husband granted POA spanish. He neede it to sell Mum's house. Not an enduring POA. Mother in denial over Alzheimer's and not seeing need to update. Suggestions please. Neither does she feel the need to put our new house in our children's name to avoid inheritance tax.: What happens when there is no EPA?
     
  14. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Dear Jane-Anne,

    Not sure that I have fully understood the situation. Spanish POA's are very different to English POA's and I honestly don't know if they 'endure' if the person giving them becomes mentally incapable.

    If your Mum has a property in England I would think she needs to do an English POA and preferably an enduring POA (EPA).

    As far as Inheritance Tax (IHT) is concerned transferring the property to the children may not be effective for avoiding IHT. If the person giving the property 'reserves a benefit' i.e. they continue to live in the property they have given, the gift is not effective for removing the property from the value of their estate for IHT purposes unless they pay a market rent for living in the property. This is a complicated area and you need professional advice.

    If there is no EPA and the person becomes unable to deal with financial affairs then you would need to apply to the Court of Protection through the Public Guardianship Office to be appointed as their receiver. This is a far more complicated and therefore expensive procedure than an EPA.

    I hope this helps but will help further if you give me more detail.

    Sue xx
     

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