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Mums council tenancy

Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
Hi all

New to the forum. A bit about me and my situation.

My name is Karen, 42yrs old, and I am my mums carer, she was diagnosed with Alzheimers a little over 5 years ago.

I am living with her in her council flat and my name is not on the tenancy. I have been told by a couple of people (friends, not experts) that if my mum moves I to a care home then I cannot succeed her tenancy? I do work, but finding it more and more difficult to carry on with the current situation. I'm more depressed than I have ever been (probably a common condition for carers), every day that does by she is causing more and more damage to the flat. She's wrecked the toilet by breaking the cistern and losing the flush buttons. She takes the cat poop out of the litter box and leaves it all over the house, rotting food everywhere in random places, bloody and poop marks all over the place, when the carers visit and give her food and tea she pours it on the living room floor or tips it behind the sofa, I can't cope, I'm exhausted, but also terrified of being made homeless and having to move away from my support network. the flat is a 3 bed flat and I would never expect or want to keep a 3 bed flat and know I would need to downsize to a 1 bed if I were to be rehoused, I just need to know if I need to prepare for the worst as I cannot cope with mum for mum longer....it's going to kill me :(
 

DianeW

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
607
Lytham St Annes
In my experience and I do work for a housing association....as long as there hasn't already been a succession with the tenancy, it is not a retirement or adapted property, and you can prove you have lived there for at least 1 year....then you can succeed the tenancy.

However as a single person a 3 bed would be deemed too large for you, so you would be given priority to bid on another property that is suitable for a single occupant.

Had your Mums flat been 1 or 2 bed you may have been ok to stay (a 2 bed would be dependant on an affordability assessment).

Ask the landlords, I am sure each area works in a different way, but at least you will know for sure.
 

Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
In my experience and I do work for a housing association....as long as there hasn't already been a succession with the tenancy, it is not a retirement or adapted property, and you can prove you have lived there for at least 1 year....then you can succeed the tenancy.

However as a single person a 3 bed would be deemed too large for you, so you would be given priority to bid on another property that is suitable for a single occupant.

Had your Mums flat been 1 or 2 bed you may have been ok to stay (a 2 bed would be dependant on an affordability assessment).

Ask the landlords, I am sure each area works in a different way, but at least you will know for sure.
Thanks DianeW...that's giving me some hope. There's been uncertainty regarding succession if my mum goes into care home. A couple of friends said this can only happen if my mum died. I have an appt at CAB on16th March so will request copy of tenancy to take with me. Part of me gave up for a time and I just thought I would be homeless. I'm too old to be renting rooms or moving around every year or so, I just couldn't face that
 

DianeW

Registered User
Sep 10, 2013
607
Lytham St Annes
No........I am sure it will all work out fine.

I understand about the renting rooms and bedsits, I am sure you just want somewhere nice to settle down.

I would go direct to the council, they will be helpful I am sure and explain exactly how you stand.

I am sure the rules are the same regardless of the reasons for ending the tenancy, care home etc, obviously the tenant would have to have no further need for the tenancy now or in future for a succession to be considered.

It may also be a possibility to have your name added to the tenancy, then you will have the right to remain as a secure tenant yourself???

Definitely speak to them and ask about all the available options.
 
Last edited:

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
What DianeW has said is my understanding of the rules too.

I think you should make yourself known to the council.
They will take into account council tax bills so if you have been living with your Mum and registered on the council tax bill for the property for a year, it will give you room to negotiate another property.
If you haven't been registered on the council tax bill they could potentially disregard you and so you may have to appeal to them for help with alternative housing but potentially pay any council tax arrears from the date you declare you were living in the property.

I would try to get some advice from Shelter

http://england.shelter.org.uk/

and/or Citizens Advice Bureau

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/housing_e.htm

Best wishes and good luck.
 

Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
Thanks. I did contact the council some time last year for a change of circumstance form which I never received....strong possibility mum got hold of it and did God knows what with it. I haven't chased it up purely because I didn't think about it. I am struggling to juggle mums appointments, cleaning some kind of horror of the floor or walls on a daily basis, liaising with doctors, community nurses, memory clinic, warfarin clinic, shopping, my own depression as well as trying to keep my job. No excuse I know, I need to be more focused, but sometimes I just want to go to sleep and not wake up. Trying to think more positively which is why I'm trying to sort my head and affairs out now
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,771
Salford
Hi Kazza
As said you should be able to transfer the tenancy but not necessarily on a 3 bedroom flat, so you would still be a council tenant but they would be allowed to require you to move to a 1 or 2 bed flat provided that your Mum didn't get the property as a seceding tenant as it can only be done once on a property. The rules are pretty standard but some councils take different spins on them so it would help to know which council authority you come under to be specific. It's pretty safe to say you won't end up homeless but knowing exactly what your rights are may come in handy as all this will be happening at the same time you'll be trying to get your mother settled into a home too and from the sound of it that's not too far away.
I don't know how you cope going out to work, I work from home and even that's a struggle some days.
Best wishes
K
 

Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
Hi Kevin

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I'd be. Ore tha happy to move to a one bed, council properties are scarce so I would feel pretty blessed if that were the case. I use my job to escape, so at lease I have a bit of respite from the goings on at home through the day, although I worked from home today and it was almost impossible. Mum is like a 5'4 toddler, only difference being her ability will only decline further.. I alway get a knot in my stomach when I approach my front door at the end of a working day, I never know what I am going to walk into.....I just need my life back. I can't even go for a drink straight from work anymore. I am in the London Borough of Hounslow. Have lived in Chiswick from the age of 11, this is where my support network is. I guess it's going to be tricky to be able to get a place in this area or even Brentford, but one step at a time
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,771
Salford
Hi Kazza
Three things from you last post:
"council properties are scarce " Yes they are and your 3 bedroom is one of the scarcest, that's a bargaining chip and quite a big one.
"I always get a knot in my stomach when I approach my front door" Been there done that.
"I can't even go for a drink straight from work anymore" Like the above the landlady of the pub used to calls us the AHHAs (prounounced ah ha's) the After Hours Home Avoiders, mainly men who for various reasons avoided going home after work, some women too, the reasons varied mine was the same as yours what am I going home to.
A drink after work, the good old days:)
K
 

chick1962

Registered User
Apr 3, 2014
11,282
near Folkestone
Hiya don't worry the council will have to make provisions for you! However you can't be put on the tenancy as the don't do that anymore unless it's already shared! 3 bedrooms are much needed property's by the council so they will find you a smaller one in hopefully in your own right . I am sorry to hear you are struggling with your mum have you thought about getting some help in form of carers in? Maybe talking to adult social services would help? X


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Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
Hiya don't worry the council will have to make provisions for you! However you can't be put on the tenancy as the don't do that anymore unless it's already shared! 3 bedrooms are much needed property's by the council so they will find you a smaller one in hopefully in your own right . I am sorry to hear you are struggling with your mum have you thought about getting some help in form of carers in? Maybe talking to adult social services would help? X


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Ho chick1962

We have carers from the reablement team who visit twice a day. The SW organise this on a temporary basis as a kind of introduction to carers services. Mum has been resistant in the past as she thinks there's is absolutely nothing wrong with her. They're pretty nice ladies and the morning one is a God send as she's managed to get mum showered about 5 times in two weeks which is a miracle. I lock my bedroom door and have a latch on the kitchen door as that's probably the most dangerous room in the flat for mum...knives, gas cooker, meds, the cats insulin in the fridge (yup, she fattened the cat up too so now spending a fortune in vet fees), and with my developing OCD tendencies I think I would have a meltdown if mum had free run in the kitchen :( life is a nightmare. I haven't even had one night away in three years....on the upside I quit smoking 2 years ago...even with all the stresses of mum...and stayed off them :)

I do have one brother...he has not bothered with my mum for almost 3 years, not even a Christmas card let alone a visit..his wife and kids robbed her blind. Sad isn't it when people do that.am hoping when mum is no longer with us his conscience eats away at him. Sorry, that's my spiteful side emerging...but I think I'm entitled after all me and mum have done for them over the years....sorry for the tangent, I try not to whinge at my friends as I think they're probably tired of it now lol
 

chick1962

Registered User
Apr 3, 2014
11,282
near Folkestone
Ho chick1962

We have carers from the reablement team who visit twice a day. The SW organise this on a temporary basis as a kind of introduction to carers services. Mum has been resistant in the past as she thinks there's is absolutely nothing wrong with her. They're pretty nice ladies and the morning one is a God send as she's managed to get mum showered about 5 times in two weeks which is a miracle. I lock my bedroom door and have a latch on the kitchen door as that's probably the most dangerous room in the flat for mum...knives, gas cooker, meds, the cats insulin in the fridge (yup, she fattened the cat up too so now spending a fortune in vet fees), and with my developing OCD tendencies I think I would have a meltdown if mum had free run in the kitchen :( life is a nightmare. I haven't even had one night away in three years....on the upside I quit smoking 2 years ago...even with all the stresses of mum...and stayed off them :)

I do have one brother...he has not bothered with my mum for almost 3 years, not even a Christmas card let alone a visit..his wife and kids robbed her blind. Sad isn't it when people do that.am hoping when mum is no longer with us his conscience eats away at him. Sorry, that's my spiteful side emerging...but I think I'm entitled after all me and mum have done for them over the years....sorry for the tangent, I try not to whinge at my friends as I think they're probably tired of it now lol
I have just got reablement for 3 weeks, starting next week not quite sure how John will take to it though! Have to be careful with kitchen too as he gets confused with kettle and tried to put it on cooker! It's hard isent it ! He is very good during the day just night time is a problem but we are coping :) sorry it's so hard for you and with no help from a family net either bless. It's sad that your brother is like that as he missed out on a lot of good days with mum!! You can't force them and he will regret it one day. Hope today will be easier for you hugs xx


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Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
I have just got reablement for 3 weeks, starting next week not quite sure how John will take to it though! Have to be careful with kitchen too as he gets confused with kettle and tried to put it on cooker! It's hard isent it ! He is very good during the day just night time is a problem but we are coping :) sorry it's so hard for you and with no help from a family net either bless. It's sad that your brother is like that as he missed out on a lot of good days with mum!! You can't force them and he will regret it one day. Hope today will be easier for you hugs xx


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H chick, my experience with the reablement team so far has been great. A few teething problems in the first couple of days but nothing that wasn't sorted out quickly. These people are pretty special and should be paid a heck of a lot more than they do. It's not a profession I would choose so hats off to them. My main problem with mum is her hygiene. She has incontinence problems sometimes so that, coupled with the long term refusal to shower has made this place an unpleasant place to live. If she couple see herself she would be mortified. Mum was a hard working independent woman who worked hard to raise us after my parents divorced....she worked nights for London underground....she wasn't the perfect mother as she always had mood swings for as london as can remember and we were often on the receiving end of her temper, but she doesn't deserve to be ignored by her "Saint" of a son (she's a typical irish woman...all for the sons)...and the grandchildren, grasping or what! Mini rant over...sorry, I'm like a pressure cooker sometimes but with less capacity at the moment before I need to let off steam :eek:
 

Pottingshed50

Registered User
Apr 8, 2012
514
Hi there, we had a similar situation when my Aunt died and it left her son in the property, as this had already passed from her husband to my Aunt of course the son was not entitled to stay. The Council were very good and gave him notice and in the end he (63) was found a retirement Council bungalow in which he now lives. So dont dispair.
 

Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
A few weeks ago I was preparing to curl up and die I was feeling that negative...but now, as there may be hope, I will try and fight my own corner...coming on here has helped me more than you all know...thank you so much


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chick1962

Registered User
Apr 3, 2014
11,282
near Folkestone
H chick, my experience with the reablement team so far has been great. A few teething problems in the first couple of days but nothing that wasn't sorted out quickly. These people are pretty special and should be paid a heck of a lot more than they do. It's not a profession I would choose so hats off to them. My main problem with mum is her hygiene. She has incontinence problems sometimes so that, coupled with the long term refusal to shower has made this place an unpleasant place to live. If she couple see herself she would be mortified. Mum was a hard working independent woman who worked hard to raise us after my parents divorced....she worked nights for London underground....she wasn't the perfect mother as she always had mood swings for as london as can remember and we were often on the receiving end of her temper, but she doesn't deserve to be ignored by her "Saint" of a son (she's a typical irish woman...all for the sons)...and the grandchildren, grasping or what! Mini rant over...sorry, I'm like a pressure cooker sometimes but with less capacity at the moment before I need to let off steam :eek:
I was exactly the same but decided that it's also important to look after myself somehow! Started with little affordable treats like hairdressers , my first ever spray tan woop me lol and just 10 min of me time when I could. . Trying to look for that little bit of positive even when at times hard to find! Someone once said to me " you can't really control what other people do, but you can control how you react to it " ! It kind of stuck in my mind ! Xxx


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Kazza72

Registered User
Feb 10, 2015
202
West London
Mums just gone off to bed. She's been bugging me since day about wanting to go to bed. Off thing is she will probably stay in bed until at least 10am.......might retire to bed also....even if to watch tv, just feeling shattered. It's been a long week, I do like to curl up with my cats :)


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chick1962

Registered User
Apr 3, 2014
11,282
near Folkestone
Mums just gone off to bed. She's been bugging me since day about wanting to go to bed. Off thing is she will probably stay in bed until at least 10am.......might retire to bed also....even if to watch tv, just feeling shattered. It's been a long week, I do like to curl up with my cats :)


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Me tooImageUploadedByTalking Point1424545828.806740.jpgImageUploadedByTalking Point1424545866.073777.jpg


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Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,771
Salford
A few weeks ago I was preparing to curl up and die I was feeling that negative...but now, as there may be hope, I will try and fight my own corner...coming on here has helped me more than you all know...thank you so much
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One day in the future this will just be a memory to you, not a good one maybe but in time the pain will fade. I think you've done as much as you can for your mum and it might be time to start the care home ball rolling. Until you ask you don't know what the reaction will be, you may be pleasantly surprised I can only say I've always the SS fairly helpful, if not then as you say you may need to "fight your corner" let's hope it doesn't come to that. I wouldn't put the inevitable off any longer.
K
 

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