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Mum taken to clinic under Section 2 but now under Deprivation of Liberty Safeguard

Brenda16

Registered User
Feb 13, 2015
69
Not applicable
Good morning

Mum was taken into a clinic under Section 2 (with police present) as she denies her condition and will not accept any help whatsoever.
She was released from Section 2 after 8 days and is now under the above-mentioned DoLs.
I've searched the web but can't find out anything regarding the consequences of this DoLs. Yes, I do know they can restrain her for medication and personal hygiene.
It's a terrible thought but now we know that Mum is safe. She's actually adapted quite well. Has allowed people to wash her hair which probably hadn't been washed in months.
In an awful situation we feel this is the best for Mum.
We've looked at CHC on the web but it says this can be "awarded" under Section 3.
As I haven't lived in England since 1970 I don't know how things work and thought somebody here might be able to help. I've read some blogs where people seem to think that the authorities will do anything to not have to put somebody into continued care. The clinic has diagnosed Mum with having a mild psychosis.
I'm trying to look into all possibilites of Mum's future care and decisions we make will be dependant on the final meeting next Monday.
Does anybody know anything about this DoLS thing and if Mum could still be eligible for CHC.
Many thanks for your time.
Brenda
 
Last edited by a moderator:

katek

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
191
Good morning

Mum was taken into a clinic under Section 2 (with police present) as she denies her condition and will not accept any help whatsoever.
She was released from Section 2 after 8 days and is now under the above-mentioned DoLs.
I've searched the web but can't find out anything regarding the consequences of this DoLs. Yes, I do know they can restrain her for medication and personal hygiene.
It's a terrible thought but now we know that Mum is safe. She's actually adapted quite well. Has allowed people to wash her hair which probably hadn't been washed in months.
In an awful situation we feel this is the best for Mum.
We've looked at CHC on the web but it says this can be "awarded" under Section 3.
As I haven't lived in England since 1970 I don't know how things work and thought somebody here might be able to help. I've read some blogs where people seem to think that the authorities will do anything to not have to put somebody into continued care. The clinic has diagnosed Mum with having a mild psychosis.
I'm trying to look into all possibilites of Mum's future care and decisions we make will be dependant on the final meeting next Monday.
Does anybody know anything about this DoLS thing and if Mum could still be eligible for CHC.
Many thanks for your time.
Brenda
Hi Brenda

I sympathise with your feelings that while it is sad that your mother's dementia has moved on, at least she is being well looked after. My father is sectioned (and also gets CHC) and is looked after in a wonderful small NHS Unit.

So, as I understand, your mother is no longer on section 2, is under DoLS, and is awaiting assessment for CHC. Obviously, I don't know the full details of your mother's health in the various domains (Nutrition, Mobility etc) but it is likely that the eligibility for CHC will come from a score of 'Severe' in Cognition and 'Behaviour' (as my father's did). Given that she is no longer sectioned, the NHS might well say that her behaviour is therefore not severe enough to score. Evidence is the essential thing.

The DoLS she is under is fairly common practice for people with AD, as essentially they are being held without their consent - in that they are not capable of giving consent - and may have no behavioural problems at all.

So, in the CHC assessment, your mother will almost certainly score 'Severe' for Cognition because of her AD, and it will be a question of going through all the other domains to see how she scores. Google the Decision Support Tool for CHC to see the criteria for all of these, but it will be the Behaviour domain which will probably be the crucial one. The criteria to score 'Severe' are quite high, and given that your mother is somewhat compliant now (allowing her hair to be washed, for example), she may well not score that highly. There would have to be sufficient evidence to prove otherwise.

Good luck with it anyway, and the main thing is that your mother is in a suitable environment, however it is funded.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,960
Brixham Devon
My late Husband was sectioned 5 times (section 2-even though he was always held for more than 28 days). You have to 'advance' to being under a section 3 to be funded under a section 117 order. To be under a section 3 it has to be agreed that further assessment/treatment is needed-if you are considered to have 'stabilised' i.e. your meds etc is under control then a DOLs is issued OR a person can agree to stay on a 'voluntary' basis.
 

kenaidog

Registered User
Apr 8, 2013
164
My mother had a dol too and was detained for a long time, at first i didnt agree with it but then as i saw how she changed i agreed with it, Your mother has to have 3 things that are bad enough for her to get the chc, My mother had it and she was very bad, she was almost sectioned!
 

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,960
Brixham Devon
I think that two domains that are assessed on the checklist as being severe is enough to progress to the assessment stage. Then the final decision is made at Panel level.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448

Brenda16

Registered User
Feb 13, 2015
69
Not applicable
That would only apply if the Section 2 became a Section 3, and it sounds as if they have already stepped back from the Section 2.
Hi Jennifer

Many thanks for your reply and the quote. I'm not too sure what "they have already stepped back from the Section 2" means. Do you mean that the DoLS is less severe than Section 2? And is Section 3 more severe than Section 2.
I'm sorry to bother you with my questions but I've searched the web until my eyes were popping out and not really found an answer.
There is the "final" meeting at the clinic coming up in about 10 days time and I really want to be as well informed as is possible.
I fully appreciate the fact that England, as are most countries, is in financial difficulties but I wouldn't like to think that the authorities are trying to get out of their responsibilites towards my Mum regarding aftercare by taking her out of one Section into another Section (or is DoLS even a law - no idea) just to meet their needs and not those of my Mum.
Sorry to sound so sceptical here but my Dad was in a home (also Alzheimer's) which was under police investigation because of two suspicious deaths and they had an autopsy done on Dad because the police wanted it. It was traumatic for my family and I'm so wary of what happens to Mum and where they will put her.

Thank you for your time.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,607
North Manchester
Sections 2 and 3 relate to sections of the MHA (Mental Health Act) and are forced hospital admissions or retentions for observation and/or treatment.

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-...ompulsory-admission-to-hospital/#.VfqPkflViko


A DOLS (Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards) and can only be used in a hospital or care home setting. It allows restriction or restraint in the person's best interests. As a result of a recent court case care homes that admit dementia patients now have to apply for a DOLS, even legally preventing the resident from freely leaving the building requires a DOLS.

http://www.scie.org.uk/publications/ataglance/ataglance43.asp
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Hi Jennifer

Many thanks for your reply and the quote. I'm not too sure what "they have already stepped back from the Section 2" means. Do you mean that the DoLS is less severe than Section 2? And is Section 3 more severe than Section 2.
I'm sorry to bother you with my questions but I've searched the web until my eyes were popping out and not really found an answer.
There is the "final" meeting at the clinic coming up in about 10 days time and I really want to be as well informed as is possible.
I fully appreciate the fact that England, as are most countries, is in financial difficulties but I wouldn't like to think that the authorities are trying to get out of their responsibilites towards my Mum regarding aftercare by taking her out of one Section into another Section (or is DoLS even a law - no idea) just to meet their needs and not those of my Mum.
Well a Section 3 is definitely more serious than a Section 2 - apart from anything else it means that the health authority and potentially the LA will be responsible for paying for all future care related to the presenting condition. A Dols assessment on the other hand is a a more moderated approach and generally is standard when someone is suitable for care in a care home, but simply expresses a desire to leave. This is simplistic but if a person is constantly trying to escape and is violent in that attempt, a section 3 might well be appropriate. But if they are simply saying "I want to go home" without appreciating that this isn't an option because they cannot care for themselves, feed themselves or are at risk of wandering, but do not take action to achieve this goal, then a Dols assessment is more appropriate. Many people with dementia say "I want to go home" because they simply do not realise they are at risk. People who might be eligible for Section 3 may express the same views, and have the same misunderstanding of their condition, but they are consistently behaving in such a way that it might well be dangerous for a person to impede them in their desires. I suppose you might sum it up as passive and active. And that's simplistic I know.
 

Brenda16

Registered User
Feb 13, 2015
69
Not applicable
Well a Section 3 is definitely more serious than a Section 2 - apart from anything else it means that the health authority and potentially the LA will be responsible for paying for all future care related to the presenting condition. A Dols assessment on the other hand is a a more moderated approach and generally is standard when someone is suitable for care in a care home, but simply expresses a desire to leave. This is simplistic but if a person is constantly trying to escape and is violent in that attempt, a section 3 might well be appropriate. But if they are simply saying "I want to go home" without appreciating that this isn't an option because they cannot care for themselves, feed themselves or are at risk of wandering, but do not take action to achieve this goal, then a Dols assessment is more appropriate. Many people with dementia say "I want to go home" because they simply do not realise they are at risk. People who might be eligible for Section 3 may express the same views, and have the same misunderstanding of their condition, but they are consistently behaving in such a way that it might well be dangerous for a person to impede them in their desires. I suppose you might sum it up as passive and active. And that's simplistic I know.
Thank you so much for your reply. Take care
 

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