Mum moving to sheltered accomodation, advice apreciated!

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by JulianneGreen, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. JulianneGreen

    JulianneGreen Registered User

    Dec 9, 2004
    23
    Hornchurch
    Hi all,

    I have decided that mum needs to be in safer accomodation (shes alone in a 3 bedroomed house that is litterally a hideous mess, a place I wouldnt feal happy about managing in myself let alone for my mother to manage in!)

    Luckily the housing officer has accepted this is urgant and has agreed to get an imediate move arranged. The only problem is that she has to sign a form saying she wants to move, yet she is adamant she doesnt want to move. Each time i speak with her she is pleading and upset to begin with, but comes round to the idea after a while. She cant grasp why or where shes going. The next day I see her and she's back to square one again, or worse. Either forgot completly about it, or remebering something about it and getting in a state about it. Forinstance I had her with me at my home the otherday, and before we took her home i talked about it with her and she seamed to be reluctanly agreeing with me. Even smiling when i talked about how nice it would be. The next day the carer who visited in the morning found mum paking bags, crying saying someone was taking her away. and that she didnt know where why or with who. she denys there is anything wrong with her, and believes she can manage. But with AD and severe osteoarthritis she truely cant. She cannot get in or out of the bath, and does not undertand that its unhealthy to leave bin bags in the living room. and thats just the tip of the iceberge, im sure with all your experience you have a fair idea about all the rest without me telling you!

    So ok, the problem lies in what happens if she wont sign the form. what next? am i allowed to force her, does a doctor have to rule she must, or would power of attorney which i havent sorted out yet give me to power to make this decision for her. I cant seem to get answars for any so called health and social professionals, which i am sure surprises you all.......NOT

    I'm mad cause the same Specialist that diagnosed 'moderate AD' 2 years ago, reassed her 2 weeks ago saying that he thought that it was just lonliness and depression that is making her so forgetful now. Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!! then promply insisted he was convinced she was a drinker and was drunk at the time of assesment. Which blatently isnt true, she cant stand alcohol, and nearly gags at even a wine and orange juice at christmas. Plus she is incapable of doing her own shopping and a care agency does it. There is no alcohol in the house. I was fuming.

    This is the woman who will eat dinner at my home and ask what shes eating. Not the dish, im talking potato ect........... now when a woman diagnosed with AD has the conversation "whats this then?, doesnt taste like anything" reply "its called a potato mum" You think nothing of it. But apparently this is someone who is just a little lonely and depressed. How can that doctor have the front to say that, he was the very person who diagnosed the AD in the first place.

    Perhaps i should get him round when I'm bathing her and she doesnt understand she has to take her clothes of first. Or that knickers go under clothes.
     
  2. Jude

    Jude Registered User

    Dear Julianne,

    Well - we all get lonely and depressed from time to time, but most people don't do Superman impersonations and put their underwear on over their jeans.....! Perhaps this might be something worth pointing out to the Doctor?

    You mention the Specialist who diagnosed your mother initially - was this the Doctor or the Consultant Psychiatrist? I am assuming that your mother has a CP overseeing her case? If the Specialist was in fact only the Doctor, then you could go directly to the CP who would be very sympathetic to your problem.

    I really don't know whether you will need to obtain POA before you can sign the form on your mother's behalf. If this is required, then perhaps a letter from the Health Workers, your immediate family members as well as the CP, would be sufficient to enable the POA to be enforced as a matter of urgency. Speak to a Solicitor to find out whether you can sign the rehousing forms in lieu of the POA being stamped.

    Obviously your mother is in a very vunerable position living alone and surely this must take precidence over the red tape aspects - or I would certainly hope so! Her safety should be the Health Departments biggest concern, since you have specifically brought it to their attention already.

    Whatever, you need to have some written proof, especially if your dealings with the 'professionals' have all been verbal. Keep copies of all correspondence and keep on their case until the situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

    Best wishes,

    Jude
     
  3. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Julianne, if you havn't already done so, get that Enduring Power of Attorney set up pronto! You can get the form free from a C.A.B. you may need to get some help with it, but if you go to a solicitor it will cost a lot. You will be able to do things for her then. If and when she needs it, then you have to register it. You are having a pretty tough time of it right now, please share on here when you can, we will try to help. Specialists only see a few minutes out of the day, then they make snap judgements, don't let it get to you, it will pass, you WILL get through this, love She. XX
     
  4. JulianneGreen

    JulianneGreen Registered User

    Dec 9, 2004
    23
    Hornchurch
    I looked up the factsheet regarding POA..........this is the bit that makes me wonder is this is goning to help this particular situation:

    'However, an attorney has no power over you. The attorney(s) cannot direct where you live or what medical treatment or care you receive'

    Ok I have to get this sorted anyway, but from what i can gather after calling various advice lines today is that rules can be bended a little but if she refuses point blank to move there is nothing I can do about it. What will probubly then follow is closer watching of her by medical staff, and in the event of her being classed in great danger to herself, she would be sectioned and marched to the mental hospital.

    This is disgusting if its true. I am not trying to take away mums freedom of choice, she is unable to make the decision because of the AD. Shes in complete denal that there is anything wrong with her, and says she 'loves' her house. This is a house with a garden so overgrown a tree is growing through all the back windows, there are damp and missing floor boards, dodgy electrics, no central heating just two gas fires and a few 'blow heaters' wall to wall junk consisting from rubish, soiled tissues that magicly apear the day after i thought i had cleared them all, clutter, junk objects that dont work, about 30 black bags worth of old papers and books stacked with hundreds of old videos.......the list goes on and on. dodgy hot water system, long stairs......gonna stop there for my sanity!

    Having 4 kids of my own, a baby myself really, I just cannot cope with the worry of her being there. And the worry that if she refuses to move the worry of her being carted off into a health system i refuse to trust anymore. I would have her stay with me if there was the room, but there just isnt. not even a corner to fit a matress.

    But on a brighter note i feal better for venting, and encouraged by your posts. Thank you x
     
  5. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Julianne, have you got an EPA? Sorry to be so blunt, but this is some thing that if you can't use just yet will save an awful lot of hassles later for you. Yes, you are a baby still, but only in body (which I envy you for grrrr!) but you have a very wise head, you must have to cope the way you do. We have to dissasociate the love bit from the practical bit so that what needs to be done can be done. Then the love bit can kick in again. Do you get my drift or have I lost you? Sorry, read it through a few times or PM me!! There are times when we have to take control because the dementia has taken control of our loved one's reason. Maybe you can't yet, but if you have the ways and means in place, when the time is right, it will slide into place. If the court of protection has to grant an order or whatever its called, they are breathing down your neck loads more than if you have an EPA in place before they get involved. I didn't realise this till after Mum had gone but believe me, an EPA makes things easier in the long run. I had to physically kidnap my Mum when she was too ill with a chest infection to argue, get her out of her flat. You need to make it clear to the medical team that she refuses to move, also the position you are in. Ask for their help in finding a place of safety for her. If you do that, it puts the ball firmly in their court and the onus off of you a bit. (practical remember) if they then have to check her safety more, they are more likely to want to get her somewhere safe, saves on time and paperwork. In the end they should feel they have to do it, then when its done, you put the love bit back in! Hope that makes sense? Lotsaluv, She. XX
     
  6. Kriss

    Kriss Registered User

    May 20, 2004
    513
    Shropshire
    "she is adamant she doesnt want to move. Each time i speak with her she is pleading and upset to begin with, but comes round to the idea after a while. She cant grasp why or where shes going. The next day I see her and she's back to square one again, or worse. Either forgot completly about it, or remebering something about it and getting in a state about it."

    and

    "...found mum paking bags, crying saying someone was taking her away. and that she didnt know where why or with who. she denys there is anything wrong with her, and believes she can manage"

    Substitute "Aunt" for "Mum" and I could have written it myself 10 months ago. It's so frustrating as you feel you make progress and then bang you're back where you started again - probably further back than when you started!

    We had tantrums - screaming in the high street, and tears which were totally against her nature.

    You have to keep trying to get your Mum to move. I was desperate it would be her decision but because it went on like this for so long she ended up in hospital - having had another turn. When physically she had been put together again the CP said there was no choice to be made and we must just refuse to take her home. Therefore we got to check out a home and decide for her. Looking back I don't know why I felt so guilty - I totally accept that what we did was for her best interests as cruel as it seemed.

    And yes we got the same advice up until then that no-one could make her go or make her accept help in the house if she didn't want it.

    Good luck
    Kriss
     
  7. John Bottomley

    John Bottomley Registered User

    Apr 7, 2004
    30
    You're in a real pickle - you say she needs safer accommodation, and safety's not something you want to ignore.

    If it really seems that staying in her own home isn't an option, then an approved social worker (ASW) can (with input from others) use section 7 of the Mental Health Act 1983, called guardianship. This would mean that she had to live at a specified address, and is protected by numerous rights and safeguards.

    It's the last option, and is used with varied frequency across the country. Around us, it's not been used for years. I was speaking with someone in the next town who said there'd been 4 in the last week there.

    Guardianship is time limited and reviewed, and has many safeguards.

    Not saying it's necessarily the way forward for you, just saying it's there in the background as an option if it'd be helpful. It's usefulness is that it can help people get the care they need and deserve in the right place that can provide it, whilst pushing the cause of the move away from carers and family, and on to professionals, so family/carers rightly aren't seen to be moving family out of their own home.
     
  8. JulianneGreen

    JulianneGreen Registered User

    Dec 9, 2004
    23
    Hornchurch
    Thankyou John,

    Thats put me a bit more at ease. I called the social worker, the CP, age concern advice line ect and none gave me any joy.

    I just needed to know what if. I have lost too many loved ones, to lose another when there is no need. Poor mum spent ages in a mental hospital as a teenager after severe abuse, and I didnt want her to go though the trauma of being made to go there again.

    At least i know now that if she still refuses to go, that she will be treated gently and moved if she has to.
     

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