Mum and dad

[CHEZA27]

Hello

My mum has advanced vascular dementia and she's been looked after by a care home for nearly 3 1/2 years. She's very poorly and it's heart breaking. Today my dad received news that he's now got early onset dementia and he's got to have further tests. We're pretty devastated and I'm pretty sure my nerves can't go through this all again.. in need of some advice.

Mum lives in Care home,dad lives in their house (no mortgage) we have poa in place for mum (health and finance) and dad (only health as he has lots of other medical issues), dad changed his will when mum got unwell. His side of the house/monies will be split between my bro and I and we lose mums.

Where do we stand if dad gets really bad and we need to sell the house and he has to be supported with living or even go the same route as mum? My brother and I need to decide what to talk to dad about to ensure that we protect him and what he has left. Such a nightmare
Feeling sad and angry that both my parents have been attacked by this disease!!

 

[Georgina63]

Hi CHEZa27

I don't have the answer to your question I'm afraid, but wanted to add my support as someone who has both parents with dementia, both now in a CH (self funding). You're right, it is rubbish and complicated. Sorry you find yourself in this situation. Best wishes. Georgina X

 

[marionq]

If your Dad Goes into care then his share of th house will be part of his assets to pay for that care. Your inheritance will only be paid out of what is left, if anything, when he dies.

The likely scenario is that if both parents are in care the house will be sold and the capital used up in care for both parents. That I am afraid is what happens. So cruel.

 

[Shedrech]

hello CHEZA27
how sad for you all that your dad now has a diagnosis
it may be a good idea o have a word with someone on the AS helpline, as they have lots of knowledge to share

0300 222 1122 or by email at helpline@alzheimers.org.uk.
•Helpline opening hours:
•Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm
•Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
•Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm

my understanding of your parents situation:
currently, all your mum's care fees will be paid by her if she is self-funding, or at least partly by the LA - the marital home is disregarded as her spouse is living there - your dad's assets are his own
if your dad needs home care visits at some point, the care fees will be paid from his own assets or part funded by the LA if his savings are below £23250 - the house is still disregarded - your parents at this point are each 'responsible' for paying only their own care fees
should your dad move into a care home, the house is then regarded as a joint asset and part of the financial assessment for each of them ie half the value each, which will make both self-funding - if they both have available assets enough to pay their own care fees, then it is up to them and the family what is done with the house - if one or other needs to use their share in the house to pay fees, then either the property needs to be sold or a deferred payment arrangement agreed with the LA
as you are Attorney for your mum for finance & property, you can manage all this on her behalf
as long as your dad has capacity, he can manage his own affairs - however, should he be deemed to no longer have capacity, you begin to encounter problems as you say there is no Attorney for finance & property - personally, I'd get that in place asap, just in case, or someone will at that point have to apply for Deputyship

should your mum die before your dad, from what you write, everything goes to your dad - if he is still living in the house, it is disregarded - when he moves into a care home, the whole value of the house is taken into account in the financial assessment
should your dad die before your mum with the house unsold, you say the property is left split between your mum and their children - so half of the value becomes part of your mum's assets and when she dies any remaining monies will, I assume, be split evenly between their children

put briefly, your dad need not worry about the house as long as he lives there - when he moves out he will have at least half the value to pay his care fees - to me, that means he is in a pretty good position financially
the key problem is that he has not yet appointed Attorneys for finance & property; that's what needs attention
best wishes

 

[CHEZA27]

Should I gain advice from my solicitor about where we stand?

 

[Shedrech]

hi CHEZA27
you can download the POA forms and do all the admin yourselves, asking a long standing family friend to confirm that your dad has capacity to understand and sign the documents, so you don't have to go to a solicitor
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview
if your dad is being a bit resistant, maybe he just needs a bit of time for the dust to settle - you could prepare the docs and a friend and pick a good moment to produce both eg when you all happen to be together for a pint or a cuppa ...

 

[clg]

Neighbour

hallo guys

I have been taking "care" of my neighbour who has altzheimer's (but doesn't want to be diagnosed). It is so sad as she has the finances to go and have the best of care, but simply refuses (no family interested)

 

[CHEZA27]

hello CHEZA27
how sad for you all that your dad now has a diagnosis
it may be a good idea o have a word with someone on the AS helpline, as they have lots of knowledge to share

my understanding of your parents situation:
currently, all your mum's care fees will be paid by her if she is self-funding, or at least partly by the LA - the marital home is disregarded as her spouse is living there - your dad's assets are his own
if your dad needs home care visits at some point, the care fees will be paid from his own assets or part funded by the LA if his savings are below £23250 - the house is still disregarded - your parents at this point are each 'responsible' for paying only their own care fees
should your dad move into a care home, the house is then regarded as a joint asset and part of the financial assessment for each of them ie half the value each, which will make both self-funding - if they both have available assets enough to pay their own care fees, then it is up to them and the family what is done with the house - if one or other needs to use their share in the house to pay fees, then either the property needs to be sold or a deferred payment arrangement agreed with the LA
as you are Attorney for your mum for finance & property, you can manage all this on her behalf
as long as your dad has capacity, he can manage his own affairs - however, should he be deemed to no longer have capacity, you begin to encounter problems as you say there is no Attorney for finance & property - personally, I'd get that in place asap, just in case, or someone will at that point have to apply for Deputyship

should your mum die before your dad, from what you write, everything goes to your dad - if he is still living in the house, it is disregarded - when he moves into a care home, the whole value of the house is taken into account in the financial assessment
should your dad die before your mum with the house unsold, you say the property is left split between your mum and their children - so half of the value becomes part of your mum's assets and when she dies any remaining monies will, I assume, be split evenly between their children

put briefly, your dad need not worry about the house as long as he lives there - when he moves out he will have at least half the value to pay his care fees - to me, that means he is in a pretty good position financially
the key problem is that he has not yet appointed Attorneys for finance & property; that's what needs attention
best wishes

Thank you that's really helpful, my brother and I have spoken to dad about the poa for finance and I think he understands where we're coming from. So our plan is to get this in place asap,

I believe that if mum goes before dad then her half of the house/inheritance goes to my dad (what her will states and my solicitor said I couldn't change it as mum doesn't have the capacity to do so), when dad goes it then spiltd between my brother and I. If dad goes before mum his half of the house only goes to my brother and I and we lose mums half to the care home fees etc...as her part of the will states that anything left goes to dad,if he's not here then surely we could lose it? Can I apply to the courts to get things changed? Or would the courts see this 'as us trying to benefit ourselves?' (If that makes sense) which were not we are helping dad to protect what's left.

Thanks

 

[Shedrech]

hi CHEZA27
I don't really know what you mean by 'lose it' - if your dad dies before your mum, his will comes into effect (and sounds as though he changed his will from leaving all to your mum to leaving only half to her and the other half to his children, so to that extent your mum would be losing out) - then when your mum dies, her will comes into effect; if she has left everything to your dad, then her remaining estate goes to their children as your dad's heirs ie you
until then, the house is there for your dad to live in - should he then move into a care home, they each have half the value of the property, when it is sold, to go towards each of their care fees
your mum's will cannot now be altered, her wishes as stated in it, are to be respected
this inheritance thing is a side issue, surely - what's important is supporting your dad ie for your dad to give Power of Attorney to someone who will eventually manage his affairs in his best financial interest, rather than leaving his affairs and eventually having to apply for Deputyship, which is more costly and onerous on the Deputy

I am not a solicitor
maybe you do need to talk to one to get things straight

 

[Jessbow]

Thank you that's really helpful, my brother and I have spoken to dad about the poa for finance and I think he understands where we're coming from. So our plan is to get this in place asap,

I believe that if mum goes before dad then her half of the house/inheritance goes to my dad (what her will states and my solicitor said I couldn't change it as mum doesn't have the capacity to do so), when dad goes it then spiltd between my brother and I. If dad goes before mum his half of the house only goes to my brother and I and we lose mums half to the care home fees etc...as her part of the will states that anything left goes to dad,if he's not here then surely we could lose it? Can I apply to the courts to get things changed? Or would the courts see this 'as us trying to benefit ourselves?' (If that makes sense) which were not we are helping dad to protect what's left.

Thanks

You don't loose anything until someone dies. Until them, well, you may as well have no knowledge of what a will says.

If your Mum goes before dad, if her will says it goes to him, that's what happens. Is all then his.

if Dd goes before mum, if his will says half his assets to you and half to Mum, then Yes, her half pays for her care home fees.

If, after your Mum is gone and your dad needs care, there maybe little left anyway.
When he dies, Then, and only then does what his will says count for anything.