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Moving into Residential Care from Scotland

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Exning, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Exning

    Exning Registered User

    Aug 26, 2018
    22
    Has any one got experience of cross border placements in England from some one resident in Scotland?
    I know it can be done if it is in the best interests of the individual and that the non means tested personal care payment can be paid by the Scotish Authority. My 89 year old mother in law lived alone in remote north of Scotland and was supported as long as possible to stay in her own home. She now needs Residential Home and it is better to be in England to be near family. She will be initially self funding but want to maximise how long her assets will last to give best place possible. The personal care payment would pay 20 to 25 % of fees so not to be ignored. Social worker doing assessment seems unsure of position.
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,368
    Male
    North Manchester
    There is also a potential problem regarding any Scottish LPAs and their validity in England.
     
  3. Exning

    Exning Registered User

    Aug 26, 2018
    22
    Thanks nitram I am taking the pragmatic approach to validity in England of Scottish POAs. Continuing (Financial ) POA not an issue as all finance assets still in Scotland. Welfare is only a potential problem if the validity is chalenged. Scottish Welfare POAs are normally routinely accepted, according to Scotland Public Guardians office who are happy to confirm the validity of the documentation.
     
  4. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    4,386
    Female
    Chester
    I read this thread as my MIL is in Scotland, aged 91, currently frailish but no dementia (myself and dau think there may be signs) and whilst my Sister in Law has the most involvement with matters at the moment, as she lives in Colorado US, it would make sense to move MIL into a home near us in England, rather than leave her 3 hours from us in due course. I would be interested in any answers, or the outcome of what you achieve.

    I have read on here before that the personal care payment should move with the person to England (MIL currently does not need or receive any personal care )

    What are the potential problems, I wasn't aware of any - MIL has a Scottish LPA which I understand covers both legal and H & W. MIL has assets in England - is this an issue whilst she is in Scotland. To complicate matters, SIL is one of the POA's and I am aware her residency in the US may cause issues with the English Fund Managers.

    Edited to add - whilst she has capacity should OH put in place English LPAs as well, or can we only do that if she is resident in England.
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,368
    Male
    North Manchester
    I said potential because I did not know the legal status.


    There is problem with capacity
    https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/problems-with-capacity.111409/#post-1571276
    Presumable if the mother lacks capacity it will need the equivalent of a best interests meeting to move her to England.
     
  6. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    4,386
    Female
    Chester
    I meant whilst my MIL has capacity should be put an English LPA in place, or should we refer to MIL's solicitor who drew up LPA for confirmation that it is valid in England
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,368
    Male
    North Manchester
    Sorry, my mistake, was thinking about capacity/best interests for OP's mother, read your bit and got confused.
     
  8. Blackcat20

    Blackcat20 Registered User

    Dec 4, 2012
    31
    York
    Yes, I have experience of a cross-border placement, having moved my 91-year old Mum with Alzheimer’s disease from Scotland to residential care in England. As you say, the key point is whether the move is in the best interests of the person with dementia. In our case, I was living in England and was the only close relative of my Mum, and so Social Services decided that the move was the best way forward (my Mum was also very keen to move near to me, which was an important factor in the decision even though she had been assessed not to have decision-making capacity and I had power of attorney which had been activated).

    My Mum was self-funding, but the Scottish local authority paid a weekly sum equal to the personal care element, which is free is Scotland, to the English care home. Although the cost of care homes in my area was significantly higher than in the Scottish LA area, the Scottish LA agreed that they would provide funding at the higher level if my Mum’s finances dropped below the self-funding level. Two Scottish LA social workers even visited my Mum after six weeks in the English care home to make her placement permanent, which involved them making a five-hour train journey there and back on the same day. The Scottish LA also arranged for my Mum to be transported to the care home by the Scottish ambulance service at no cost (Mum went into residential care directly from a community hospital in Scotland).

    I had a Scottish LPA for Mum, and had no problems at all with using it in England (I used it with the care home, hospitals, doctors, banks, building societies, solicitors, the post office for redirecting mail etc). Nobody in any of these institutions questioned the fact that the LPA was Scottish, or even mentioned this.

    For us, the cross-border placement was really positive, as I was able to visit my Mum every day and she was much happier than when she was living alone up in Scotland. If you go ahead with this, I hope it goes well for your family too.
     
  9. Exning

    Exning Registered User

    Aug 26, 2018
    22
    Thanks Blackcat20 for the reply. It's reassured me that it can be done. I always thought it was possible but hearing that a real person has gone through the process it invaluable.
    Particular issues I had were:
    Practicality of transport to transfer. We are 400 miles from hospital where MIL is currently a patient.
    Glad that issue of fees were not an insurmountable problem. Here too fees are higher that Highland Council would normally pay in their area.
    Was interested how they would confirm suitability of residential home.
    Glad they appear to accept paying Scotland personal care element. With Attendance Allowance it cuts a fair wack off the fees.
    Now hoping that things are going to go more smoothly and that my concerns were I'll founded perhaps from a Social worker with limited experience. We shall see.
     
  10. Exning

    Exning Registered User

    Aug 26, 2018
    22
    Disappointed that another 2 weeks gone by without getting clarity from Social Workers and hospital as to the steps they are taking and the ones I need to take to help facilitate the move.
    I am perhaps being impatient at the lack of progress but I would accept delays if I understood that there was some movement along the processes and proceedures the authorities are having to go through.
    Feel uncomfortable in doing so but have today contacted assigned Social Workers manager to seek simple answers to simple questions.
    At each step along the process I have provided information and taken action immediately to rectify errors as soon as I was aware of the need..
    Problem with Welfare POA identified and sorted
    Problem with proving cspacity. Sourced another expert and sorted.
    Eventual Financial Assessment promised weeks ago received and returned electronically and by mail same day.
    Homes promised a copy of Care Assessment not received. So sourced by me and sent out by me.
    Perhaps that was the mistake as they perhaps think I know exactly what is going on but I still can not get confirmation that they are progressing a placement in one of the 4 homes I have foundvthat are suitable and have vacancies.
    I have never hidden the fact that I want Social Services to make arrangements for 2 reasons.
    Firstly I thought they would have the knowledge and expertese to match need and provision. (Feeling increasingly unsure of this)
    Secondly, purely mercenary, to get the Scottish Personal Care contribution.
    I am getting worried that the processvis dragging and that the homed I want MIL to go to will fill the vacancies.
    Frustrating ......
     

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