1. Alison Johnston

    Alison Johnston Registered User

    May 8, 2008
    2
    Haringey
    :confused:My mum has vascular dementia. She is just hanging on in her own home with care provided through Social Services. They are not really doing what we want eg washing her, cleaning etc because she refuses all help. She also refuses to go into a home when all around her are telling me that's what she needs. We (daughter and son who live miles away from her) have found a good place for her near where I live (Methodist Homes for the Aged) who won't take her against her will. Yet we know this is what is needed. How do we get round this?
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,560
    Kent
    Hello Alison,
    I`m afraid your mother cannot be forced into a care home against her will unless she is sectioned. This will only happen if she is a danger to herself and others.
    I understand you want what you see as a better quality of care for her, but she obviously wants the familiarity of her own home and what she sees as the remaining vestiges of her independence.
    It`s tough I know. It would make life much easier for you if you didn`t have to worry about her so much, but that`s how it is.
    The day may come, as it did with my mother, grandmother and neighbour, when she feels unsafe and frightened and will go into a care home willingly.
    Till then, you can only do your best.
     
  3. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    The short answer is that you can't. I'm willing to bet that your mum believes that there is nothing wrong with her, she is perfectly alright, and doesn't need any help and can manage perfectly well on her own. Why then would she need to go into a care home, or need carers?

    The only way to force someone into care is when they are so much of a danger to themselve sor others that they are sectioned. This is the extreme last resort and doctors are rightly reluctant to do it.

    It might be possible to progress by portraying a care home as a "hotel" or something like that...but I wouldn;t bet on it.
     
  4. helen.tomlinson

    helen.tomlinson Registered User

    Mar 27, 2008
    541
    Hi Alison

    Perhaps she will have to stay where she is whilst she's just hanging on in there. Do you feel confident that Social Services will let you know when/if the situation becomes dangerous?

    It must be really worrying for you but your mum is in the care of Social Services and although she refuses to be washed etc. she does admit them and in that way they can monitor the situation.

    Love Helen
     
  5. amberence

    amberence Registered User

    Mar 15, 2008
    28
    Barton upon Humber
    I had both my parents diagnosed with dementia. First steps taken when knew had a problem was to make an appointment with them to see the family doctor who did a short memory test and blood tests on them, then contacted Social Services for their help.

    The hardest and most traumatic period in my life tehn followed, Social Services couldn't help or do a great deal till it reached crisis point. Which it did a year on after seeing the doctor and contacting Social Services and only thanks to the CPN, parents commumity nurse pushing for further help from SS eventually got my step-father in a home. Unfortunately found it a slow process getting my step-father into a care home which needed by then, as worse of the two, than my mother. Until then able to make still, some decisions for himself and this is the criteria SS use for NOT putting anyone into a care home. Once obvious they can't, make any decisions for themselves lot easier to put someone into a care home. That is from my experience how the system works.

    Keith.
     
  6. Alison Johnston

    Alison Johnston Registered User

    May 8, 2008
    2
    Haringey
    Care home for reluctant Mum

    Thanks for the helpful responses. Yes of course she thinks she can cope and lives in a fantasy world I'm afraid. She phones elderly friends sometimes 17 times a day and it drives them demented too! They think we are at fault for not putting her in a home but I agree with all you say and want to respect her wishes. Very hard when you are bombarded by people saying they can't cope with her demands.:(
     
  7. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,560
    Kent
    That is difficult indeed. All you can do is apologize on behalf of your mother and tell these people to turn away from her if her demands are too many.

    Perhaps then, she will realize she is not as independent as she believes.

    I`m sorry if I sound cruel. I feel cruel writing it, but other people, I presume friends and neighbours, can only be expected to provide so much support. I imagine many of them are elderly themselves.
     
  8. germain

    germain Registered User

    Jul 7, 2007
    342
    Hello Alison,

    Its very hard, isn't it. Almost the same happened with our Mum.


    Do you ever have her to stay with you ? You could take her for a visit to see the home and then ask if she would like to stay for a couple of days holiday. Try stressing how lovely it would be to have her nearby - all the davantages - you could see her all the time etc (and so could the children if you have any).


    In the end what worked with us was our District Nurse insisting she was at risk and needed a "place of safety" - but this was at the time when she was not eating or drinking or washing etc and had just come out of hospital.


    Unfortunately it can often be a fall that triggers moves off and its really stressful waiting for the worst to happen before you can move her. It will come to it in the end but the planning and waiting is horrendous.


    Hope things work out for you.

    regards
    germain
     
  9. sassylady

    sassylady Registered User

    May 12, 2008
    2
    Hertfordshire
    Hello Alison

    I am new here as my mum has Vascular dementia she is at present in Respite care organised by Social Services as she was constantly calling myself, the ambulance and the care team in the early hours of the morning saying she was trying to get out of the building (Sheltered accommodation) as she was trapped. After 6 months of trying to get help the term 'At Risk' was mentioned, and the Social Services were at mum's the next day, and she was gently advised and then agreed that she could no longer stay on her own and Respite care then implemented for assessment. We enlisted the help of her GP to get to this point,it takes a lot to initiate the system but just as much for the relative to actually agree they need help.

    My thoughts are with you, it is so very sad to see the changes in our mum, and to see her in care but she is being looked after.
     
  10. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    #10 Nebiroth, May 12, 2008
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
    The only way forward on this is to suggest that the people she phones obtain phones that show caller ID, and that when mum rings, that they don't answer. You also need to explain that it is impossible to force mum into care unless she is so ill that she can be sectioned (what used to be called "certified") and is forcibly taken away into a mental care hospital. Sometimes it is necessary to put things into brutal terms because so many people, well intentioned though they may be, do not realise the impossibility of "putting someone into care" when it's against their wishes.

    This sounds cruel, but as has been said, neighbours and friends can only be expected to give so much support and being constantly pestered can be a real strain, likely to the point where they are starting to dread the phone ringing.

    If mum is doing this because she lacks companionship or someone to talk to, it could be time to tactfuly suggest going to a day centre. Just call it a "club" or something that "the government provide free to pensioners"
     
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #11 Margarita, May 12, 2008
    Last edited: May 12, 2008

    You do not need to get someone section any more to find out if you feel they lack the mental capacity to make their own decisions, to go into a care home or not .


    All you have to do is get a social worker to do the test on them , then if they do not pass the test they do on them , they will class as Lacking the mental capacity to make their own decisions in they best interest , you can legally put them in a care home for they own safety, if they like it or not .

    but you have to get the test done on them .

    They where going to do it on my mother , but I did not like the social worker . So am going to get another SW to do the test on her .

    They can do it in such a way , that the person will not know its been done on them . They only do it that way , if the person very challenging would get very distressed if they new it was being done on them .


    The Law has change now , you don't have to wait till a crises happen , unless you let it get to that point .


    Law are changing from how if was in the past . If we carer don’t empower ourselves with this knowledge, read this New act a lot of venerable people with dementia are going to suffer due to lack of neglect.

    Why force someone to be section. When they can have the same quality of testing that they do in a mental health unit in they own home , that what this act is is about . To stop a crises happening, so they have to be section.

    Read it for free hear .

    http://www.dca.gov.uk/legal-policy/mental-capacity/mca-cp-plain1.pdf



    Read this part , What does it mean when it talk about best interest, then look at what is the best interests principle and who does it apply to
     

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