1. Scoop

    Scoop Registered User

    Nov 20, 2006
    99
    Anyone got any experience of the rules around moving assets about, currently pretty much everything is joint for my Mum and Dad, they are tennats in common on the house but all savings etc are joint. They are quite someway above the 21500 limit I have read about, even when you only take Dad's half into account.

    Wnyone know what rules there are around My Mum moving the assets about?

    I suspect a care assessment isn't too far off now unfortunately so I want to find out as much as possible before we start along that path

    Cheers

    Scott
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,560
    Kent
    I don`t think you need to move anything for now. As far as I know, all disposable assets of a married couple are split down the middle, and the value of the house isn`t taken into account whilst one partner lives in the house.
     
  3. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Scott

    If there is any chance in the future that your dad will go into a Nursing Home and the fees will eat away his savings there would be no harm in taking some action now and opening individual accounts. The rule is that a person must not do anything to specifically avoid paying the Nursing Home fees from their own savings.

    The big concern with joint savings is that each partner ALWAYS owns half. It is just possible for SS to argue as follows.

    In simple maths.
    Joint savings are £200k......£100k mum and £100k dad (half and half)
    Dad spends £50k on fees
    Joint account holds £150k......£75k mum and £75k dad (half and half)
    Dad spends further £50k on fees.
    Joint account then has £100k.....£50k mum and £50k dad (half and half)

    Whilst mum has spent nothing, her half share of the joint savings has dropped from £100k to £50k.
    It is possible for a couple to be left with just £21k each before SS agree to start paying towards the Care Home fees.

    Many people like to talk to an Independent Financial Advisor who specialises in Nursing Home fees, though you still have to be aware that an IFA is likely to be trying to sell you a plan.

    I cannot recollect from you previous posts whether you have already got yourself Enduring / Lasting Power of Attorney which is very useful when trying to help parents with their financial affairs.

    Also no doubt you will have organised dad’s Attendance Allowance and (if just two people in the house) the Council Tax discount that many Councils offer the mentally ill.

    Best wishes

    Clive
     
  4. Scoop

    Scoop Registered User

    Nov 20, 2006
    99
    Cheers for the replies,

    Currently Myself Sister and Mum are down as joint EPA on the forms but it has yet to be registered or whatever you do, May have ot get done soon though as Dad struggles to sign his name at times..

    Currently after a house move they have a large amount in 1 joint savings account, My Mum's plan is to move at least half out into her own account - primarily taking Dad off as he is not capable of managing it anymore ( not that he ever did ). They have a similar amount in shared investments Shares ISA's etc - not sure how they are viewed?

    They are planning to lend me a big chunk to extend my house so hopefully that loses some more - not sure what the powers at be would think of that come assesment though??

    Also I have said to Mum spend some on their new house - porch, conservatory, driveways etc as all the while she is there the house isn't touched.

    So not deliberatly trying to avoid paying but rather not see it all go after they worked so hard for it, seems unfair that they could take so much from Mum after everything else she is going through...

    Cheers

    Scott
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    I think you need to very careful about the amount that your mother may lend you - if it's a real loan with repayment terms etc, you shouldn't get into trouble because it will just be viewed as an investment. However, it will still be considered capital for the purposes of the calculations so won't have any effect on the final outcome. If the money is just given to you then you (or rather your mother) probably would be considered to be disposing of assets and this would not be a good place for her to be. It does make sense to spend some of the assets on property maintenance, because that is legitimate expenditure.
     
  6. Scoop

    Scoop Registered User

    Nov 20, 2006
    99
    Yeah that could be tricky, they had planned to loan the money long before we ever thought there may be a need for a nursing home of some kind - could be impossible to convince anyone of that though!

    Cheers

    Scott
     
  7. sheila d

    sheila d Registered User

    Dec 8, 2007
    25
    liverpool
    assets

    I have been researching this area for my parents recently and this is my conclusion.

    Split all joint accounts 50:50. It is possible for banks to give a third party authority to you or someone else to manage accounts on their behalf if necessary, so no worry about account being in single name only. This is simpler than having to register and EPA.

    Make sure that any income is paid into their own current accounts, not joint and ansure that any bills are shared ( but only whilst both are still living at home).

    With regard to the house, holding it as tenants in common is correct, but remember this is only of use if their wills are set up correctly - they must not leave their estate to the surviving spouse.

    You will find it very difficult to reduce their cash balance as any movement of cash will be examined carefullly for intentional "deprivation af assets"
     
  8. Scoop

    Scoop Registered User

    Nov 20, 2006
    99
    The house and will have been setup correctly, I have no worries with that one. I had figured the cash maybe a problem - guess the only way is to spend it, they will spend a fair chunk on house stuff hopefully.

    Cheers for the info, very useful.
     
  9. DickG

    DickG Registered User

    Feb 26, 2006
    558
    Stow-on-the-Wold
    We had a financial assessment last month to determine Mary's contribution to her care costs. The calculation was simple - all Mary's assets (apart from the house) and half our joint assets determined her contribution. Mary's pension was also taken into account. There is no future assesment although her pension increases will be taken into account.

    At no time did I feel that they were out to extract the maximum from us but merely to apply the rules fairly so I co-operated fully and was not disappointed by the outcome.

    Dick
     

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