Mothers bank account

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Giddyupgo1971, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Giddyupgo1971

    Giddyupgo1971 Registered User

    Feb 13, 2018
    10
    hi my mother has dementia and is in a care home awaiting decision on if she can go back to her own property .i was concerned that somebody in the family was or maybe taking money from her bank account as my niece was apparently keeping the cash card at her home ,so I called bank and raised possible concern and asked to stop the card which they agreed .once it was noticed by the said part of my family that card was stopped they were very angry and said I shouldn’t of done that as they were using money from the account to renovate my mothers flat for her possible return ,I didn’t know this was happening and have no problem with this but have obviously had card stopped ,now my nieces husband says he is being investigated by bank for possible fraud as he has been taking money from atms for materials used and is telling me bank and his solicitor are now having bank conversation played back so he can hear what I said in conversation and is making threats to me now .can bank play this conversation back to him legally ?
     
  2. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    6,206
    Yorkshire
    hello @Giddyupgo1971
    welcome to TP
    I'm wondering whether someone has Power of Attorney over your mum's financial affairs, as, strictly, only her Attorney should be dealing with her bank
    again, strictly, no-one else should have her atm card and be using it, even with her permission - check her bank's T&Cs
    it seems a bit odd that her niece took on renovations/maintenance without discussing this with you - did you know she had the card? - does she have receipts? has any work actually been done? - does your sibling know what their daughter was doing?
    has her husband actually quoted what was said by you in these phone conversations? - it does seem odd that they would be played to him - but I don't know how a fraud investigation would be carried out - I'm just suspicious as members here have written about similar situations and no action seemed to have been taken as it was considered a family matter - but maybe your mum's bank challenges every situation this way?
    personally, I'd contact the bank - they may not be able to discuss the issue with you, but they no doubt will at least listen to what you have to say
     
  3. Giddyupgo1971

    Giddyupgo1971 Registered User

    Feb 13, 2018
    10
    Hi thanks for reply no attorney was acting at this time apparently my sister has now applied last week I was told by my sister that my niece had card and was on holiday over seas yes the work has Been carried out at property and is very high standard but I was not made aware of card being used for materials until this weekend he also claims to have my mothers deeds to property and says if he’s not paid balance by me he will keep deeds .is this a police matter ?
     
  4. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    6,206
    Yorkshire
    if your sister has now sent off the POA forms, you can't really deal with your mum's finances; all will have to wait until the forms are registered with the OPG and then your sister, as your mum's Attorney, can take over management of your mum's financial & property affairs including paying any of her debts
    the niece's husband should not have the deeds - but that again is now something for his mother-in-law to deal with so refer him back to her
    I hope the family are doing up the property for your mum - it seems an odd thing to do, to me, whilst it's not clear what the next move is for her - though if it needs to be sold to pay for her care home fees, I guess it will now achieve a higher sale price (which must all go into your mum's account to be used only in her best financial interest and managed to that standard by her Attorney) and if she returns home, it will be more pleasant for her
     
  5. Giddyupgo1971

    Giddyupgo1971 Registered User

    Feb 13, 2018
    10
    Thanks for reply
     
  6. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,179
    When you say your sister applied last week, are you saying that your mother granted her an lpa and now it's been sent off for registration, or are you saying that she's applied to be your mother's deputy.

    I'll be frank: the whole thing sounds extremely fishy. Withdrawing cash for materials? Holding on to the deeds? Trying to make you pay for the repairs? It sounds to me as if your niece and her husband thought they could take over your mother's flat, use her money to do it up and now your sister is protecting them. I can't think of one valid reason for him to have the deeds and threatening you with them is beyond the pale.

    I have no idea if the bank would play him their tapes, but even if they did, you did nothing wrong. And if your sister has applied to be a deputy I personally would object to that with the court.

    I have no idea why he thinks you owe him a penny. The only person who might possibly owe him money is your mother. What he is doing with the deeds sounds an awful lot like extortion and I'd be contacting the police about that.
     
  7. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    6,206
    Yorkshire
    #7 Shedrech, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    just a thought @Giddyupgo1971 - your niece has no right to have your mum's card, certainly not to take it with her out of the country - when POA is registered your sister will take a certified copy to your mum's bank and have her authority as Attorney recorded by the bank - then a new card and cheque book will be issued for her use as Attorney NOT for use by anyone else

    cross posted with Jenniferpa - who's put things plainly and clearly

    are you in a position to discuss the POA with your mum?

    here's a link to the OPG website - it may well be worth having a chat with one of the phoneline operators
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian
     
  8. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    11,784
    Female
    England
    You should never divulge the PIN of your card to anyone else, not even family. It breaks the terms and conditions of your card and you loose cover for fraud or loss on the account. So niece and husband have a problem with the bank.
     
  9. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    2,937
    Maidstone.Kent
    Am not sure what he thinks he can do with the deeds. My understanding is that unless change of ownership goes back a long way before property ownership was recorded with the Land Registry...your mother's ownership is detailed there...and the physical importance of deeds has lessened in house transactions. It doesn't sound as though your mum and her financial interests are being protected as they should be
     
  10. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,179
    Sorry to keep harping on about this point but if he was using your mother's ATM to pay for materials, why does he think he is owed anything? I mean he's already taken the money... And I want to reiterate, even if there was money owing, it wouldn't be up to you to pay it, it would be for your mother or her representative to pay it, although without a contract of some kind I wouldn't even do that. I'm really incensed by this behaviour.
     
  11. Risa

    Risa Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
    484
    Essex
    I think he is making this up. If he is not the account holder or has LPA for the account, a bank won't be discussing a customer's account with anyone else and certainly won't be sharing taped conversations with him which contain personal and sensitive information about a customer. The bank may investigate fraud internally but they wouldn't be interviewing suspects - they would involve the Police.
     
  12. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    2,937
    Maidstone.Kent
    I agree...I think it sounds like he is saying whatever he thinks will work to achieve his aim...whatever that is!
     
  13. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    @Giddyupgo1971

    Is there any reason you did not talk to your relatives before going to the bank? Maybe if you had matters could have been resolved differently.

    Although the builders actions are wrong in asking you to pay him have you considered that maybe his frustration is in that although the materials may have been paid for he may have also expected to paid for his time for doing the renovation to a "very high standard" as you admit. Obviously as accounts have been frozen he may now have to wait quite a while for any payment.

    The bank should not allow him access to the phone calls without a court order but why are you concerned. Is there something that you now regret saying to the bank?

    Do you think they have also been using money for other purposes? If not I am surprised at the vitriol on here as it is often suggested that people without PoA surreptitiously use someone else's bank card.:confused:
     
  14. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    11,784
    Female
    England
    The fact that the bank know the card is being used by someone other than the account holder is enough for them to stop the card and why a solicitor is being used is a puzzle. He has taken money from an account that’s not his whatever his reasons are.
     
  15. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    Agreed, but why is it often recommended on here that such action is acceptable. What makes this occasion different is all I am asking?

    The OP is so far not alleging any other type of fraud.
     
  16. myss

    myss Registered User

    Jan 14, 2018
    150
    I had to admit Giddyuptogo1971 that Pete R's first sentence was my first thought as it wasn't as if you were reporting anonymous suspicious activity on your mum's bank account but that you had a feeling it was to do with a family member, especially your niece as you were aware she had your mum's bank card.

    That said though, all this talk of about taped conversions, deeds and solicitors etc does seem a bit 'up in the sky' with the intent of scaring you and it may be worth reminding him and your niece that having your mum's bank card and withdrawing money from her account - even if it's legitimately and/or with your mum's permission, is breaking the bank's term and conditions, and they could be in trouble with the bank themselves.
    If you're content with them using the card like this, the most you can do is to let the bank know that a mistake had been made in you making that report. Other than that, make them listen to whatever tape they want. :D

    After all this is done, perhaps you should have a sit down talk with your sister and your mum and decided how to continue from this point.
     
  17. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,179
    You and I must read different threads. While I'm aware that some people say that they do this, in most cases people point out how legally unwise this is, and I never seen someone recommend it as a course of action without that being pointed out.
     
  18. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    11,784
    Female
    England
    As a banker for 42 years I have never and never would recommend using someone else's card.

    I have always posted that it is breaking banking rules that you signed up to and the consequences are that you will not be covered for any loss or fraud on your account.

    There are other ways, third party mandate being the easiest as a starter.. You can sign for the person but all connection with the account ceases when cancelled by the account holder or the account holder dies. What is so difficult about going into a bank and signing a third party mandate.

    Then of course the LPA that if we stop and think, we should all have. It's like an insurance policy. I have one, hope it never has to be used but it is there ready.

    I have no idea why members advocate using someone else's card, it's certainly simple but it is wrong and when you do something wrong then you have to accept there may be consequences. Take the risk, but be prepared to take the concequences.
     
  19. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    11,784
    Female
    England

    It's only acceptable to the person wrongly using the card.
     
  20. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    669
    When my dad wants money from his bank I have to take him to the supermarket cash point. He hands me the card then I put it in for him then he tells me the number which I put in for him. Then I hand him back the card and then I give him the money and he puts card and money into his wallet..

    I always feel terrible when we do this but he cannot get the hang of the cash machine. He used to walk to the bank in town but he can't do that any more and it is not safe for him to go on his own anyway.

    I don't know of any other way for him to get his money out.
     

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