Mother wont use toilet paper, and advice?

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by PeterMD, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    My mum has Alzheimer's and thinks she needs to go to toilet too many times.

    Each time she never uses toilet paper and her left hand and fingers end up covered in dirt.

    There is no talking to her what do I do ?
     
  2. balloo

    balloo Registered User

    Sep 21, 2013
    227
    northamptonshire
    my MIL has vascular dementia and I have had to talk over wiping her as she either does not do it or uses the hand towels or anything else she can find in the bath room . our towels and wash backet do not live in the bathroom any more .I suggest you help ends up less stressfull as I am finding .
     
  3. LynneMcV

    LynneMcV Volunteer Moderator

    May 9, 2012
    3,357
    south-east London
    #3 LynneMcV, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    My husband has reached the stage where he occasionally struggles with cleaning himself on the toilet - though he does still understand the concept of using toilet paper.

    I find it easier to just be on hand in case he needs extra help and I find the packaged wet toilet wipes are easiest to use and do a great job.

    My son, who also helps out, had to do the toilet duty himself a few days ago but he hasn't reached a stage yet when he feels able to actually do the wiping. His solution was to stand nearby and hand bits of toilet tissue to his dad, encourage him to clean and also encourage him to dispose of the tissue down the loo. It took a while but it was successful.

    It's not a pleasant or comfortable situation for anyone but I'd rather do this than have the alternative.
     
  4. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    thank u Lynne

    Thank u Lynne I know what you mean just fight it out. Sometimes I raise my voice I must stop that clearly mum just doesn't understand anymore about the toilet.

    When u say alternative do u mean care home ?
     
  5. CJinUSA

    CJinUSA Registered User

    Jan 20, 2014
    1,127
    eastern USA
    As her Alzheimer's progressed, my mother started thinking she needed to go to the toilet more often than she really did. She'd feel the need to go, and then she'd go, and then at the slightest feeling of needing to go again, she'd be up. One overnight, she got herself up 6 times. I know, because I used a motion detector so I'd know when she was out of bed, and then I'd go to her room and help her by making sure she wiped herself.

    I found it terribly awkward to do this, but as she is in my care, there wasn't much choice in the matter.

    I use non-latex, powered gloves, and it has taken away all the feeling of awkwardness or, worse, grossness, to the task. We use toilet paper for the front bit and then she will stand up and we use disposable (but don't try to flush them) wipes for the back part. yes, it's not fun, but she is in my care, and this is what they would do at a care home. I'm not inclined to use a care home; I can know she is better cared for here.

    My mother is no longer ambulatory, so caring for her has changed a bit, but she still needs to go. We have her on a schedule now that she can no longer get up and get to the toilet herself.

    Get yourself some plastic gloves and baby wipes, and you'll feel a lot better about doing this.
     
  6. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    thank u

    Thank u so much and I will get all u advised. I just can't believe I never thought of it myself, incredible sometimes the answer may be so obvious
     
  7. CJinUSA

    CJinUSA Registered User

    Jan 20, 2014
    1,127
    eastern USA
    Yes, sure. You'll find this makes it so much better - for you and for her. There is one more thing that people don't think about. Most elderly people are lactose intolerant - they can't process the lactose in dairy products as well as they did formerly. If your mum has tea and uses milk or cream in it, or if she likes ice cream, or any other dairy products, and if she *is* lactose intolerant, she likely has soft and smelly poo resulting, and sometimes she might have poo incontinence. You can resolve this by using a pill like Lactaid, or by using lactose-free milk. Lactose free milk is just like milk - it has all the properties of milk and is not a reconstituted product - so this is what we use. We also use a probiotic capsule for seniors, and this has helped immensely in the poo department.

    Sorry to be so graphic, but as we have been through what you might be facing, I thought I'd share that bit more.
     
  8. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland
    T has same problem. Won't let me help him at all. Have tried everything. Minimum stuff kept in toilet now. Sometimes I try to encourage him to have bath. This works an odd time. It is very distressing. I can encourage hand washing.

    Aisling ( Ireland )
     
  9. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    Thanks One more question

    Thanx CJ so much will def check on all that I tend not to give my mum less chocolate now like chocolate eclair buns etc.

    May I also ask. My mother insists on wearing tights this Is once again a prob in the toilet an xtra item to remove. Plus mum also wont sit on toilet but stands up I have to get her to sit down. Plus I change her underwear numerous times a day.

    Also my mum use to smoke 4 cigs a day now it's over 20 should I let on she doesn't smoke anymore ?

    Plus mum thinks she is in jail and everyone on tv is in jail. Also she always says don't let those people in all day I don't understand this because the only person whom calls is a carer for 30min in the morn.
     
  10. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    thanx

    Thanx Aisling can u help me with the question below posted to CJ and what does T mean in your post ?
     
  11. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland
    Sorry Peter. T means Tim / my husband.

    Aisling Ireland
     
  12. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland

    T in my reply means Tim. He is my husband.

    Aisling
     
  13. LynneMcV

    LynneMcV Volunteer Moderator

    May 9, 2012
    3,357
    south-east London
    Hi Peter, I was thinking more about the alternative being the need to keep cleaning poop up which has been spread around the house by soiled hands - but yes, I would definitely rather take on the toileting regime than see a problem escalate to the point of needing a care home.

    You are doing a great job. It's not easy! :)
     
  14. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,319
    Female
    South coast
    Delusions are pretty standard in dementia.
    Mum used to think that people were coming into her home all day, when actually there was no-one. She thought that children were coming in and re-arranging all the furniture.
    Also, once they reach the stage of not recognising their home they start to think that they must be somewhere else - hotel/care home/hospital/jail. Ive heard of several people who think that they have been made prisoners.
    Where mum thinks that she is often depends on what she has seen on television as she thinks that what she sees on TV is happening in real life actually in the room.
     
  15. PeterMD

    PeterMD Registered User

    Jan 1, 2016
    23
    N.IRELAND
    thanx


    You r so right my mum believes what's own tv that she and I are on it and will often say "u know those people r prisoners and have to do that" when it's actually just a quiz show.

    Once my mum asked me what an episode of Colombo was about I knew she would never understand tv again.
     
  16. CJinUSA

    CJinUSA Registered User

    Jan 20, 2014
    1,127
    eastern USA
    O my. You do have your hands full.

    My mother used to wear pantyhose (like tights). I was able to persuade her not to, after awhile. I substituted a product that sort of held her skin a little bit tight but provided more freedom. I used "Cuddl Duds" as I think they are called. My mother is now entirely in different sets of pajamas - she is not ambulatory, and I have discovered that these give the fewest little welts on her skin because she sits so long.

    I have assumed you use Depend or some other incontinence panty? If not, tell your mum, "O mum, all the girls are wearing these now to keep themselves feeling cleaner." I did this, and my mother finally gave in. These will catch and hold whatever she puts out so that clothes get less soiled.

    If your mum is still smoking, perhaps you can curb this by giving her fake cigarettes? Do you think this would work? My mother didn't smoke when she moved in, but she did smoke formerly. My husband wouldn't have let me move her into our home if she smoked. It's a health and a household hazard to have your mum smoking.

    Often people with dementia will imagine they are part of the television dramas. We now only watch certain shows with my mother, and I will or a caregiver will sit and coach her through the show. My mother's dementia is now much farther along. Sometimes sitting with her without tv on and singing old songs you think she might know, or playing music, or reading to her might distract her. It is very tiring, though.

    Do you have anyone who can come round and help you so you can get out a bit, maybe once a week? I don't know how you can handle all this? As for her saying she is in jail, she might mean she feels like her life is very limited now. When my mother started saying things like this, I sat down with her and looked her calmly in her eyes and smiled and said to her, "Mom, what do you think you are trying to say when you tell me you are in jail. We love you, and that is why I'm here taking care of you. Is there something I can do to help you feel better?" Sometimes just listening - showing "listening" behavior - can be so disarming to them that you might actually be able to break through and find out what is really troubling her. Could be she is feeling unsafe or vulnerable. Of course, anyone would feel that way when thrust into a position of dependence. Maybe sitting down and quietly trying to get her to work through what she really means might help? And it could be she really does imagine she is in jail. You can try, if so, to find out where the jailer is, and what is he doing now, etc. - not to feed the fantasy but to understand it better, so you know what you are dealing with. Maybe?
     
  17. Poppet1959

    Poppet1959 Registered User

    Aug 31, 2010
    3
    Cheshire
    Our Brains control everything that we do. The correct signals that are usually sent to the brain to tell a person that they need to go the toilet may not be getting to the brain or the person may not be able to recognise what the feelings mean. Also years ago paper wasn't all soft tissue and on a roll so you may have to be inventive without tearing up newpaper and putting it on a spike.
     
  18. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland
    Me again Peter!! The health people will kill me but if your mum enjoys a smoke I would let her smoke!! You know to take all safety precautions, i.e. keep them out of sight and give when requested, supervise activity etc.

    U have so much on your hands. You are any mother's dream son.

    I didn't know how to send a private message .

    T is home from Respite today. Lots of drama! At times I have to find a funny side to it all or I might go stark raving mad!!

    He is asleep now in a separate bedroom and am keeping my fingers crossed that it will work. If it does I am getting a baby alarm tomorrow. I know I will hear him if he moves but still I will be happier with one of those intercom alarms. I won't sleep a wink tonight!

    Aisling ( Ireland)
     
  19. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland
    What is a motion detector please? Am thinking of getting a baby alarm.

    Aisling ( Ireland)
     
  20. CJinUSA

    CJinUSA Registered User

    Jan 20, 2014
    1,127
    eastern USA
    Hello. I actually used three things to monitor my mother when she was still ambulatory. I used a baby (audio) monitor to listen in on her activity, a motion detector (which used a beam and activated a remote device that sounded as soon as the beam was crossed), and a video/audio monitor (finally found one that would work across a long distance). I'll try to copy and paste into this message links to the devices I used.

    I used a Graco digital monitor with two parent units (so that I could leave one in the bedroom and carry one with me as I moved about the house):
    https://jet.com/product/detail/d5f4...d=403-543403&gclid=CNXKpZftxcoCFYEfHwodRZgOpw

    I used this motion detector, with a remote alarm, though they sell all different kinds:
    http://www.amazon.com/Motion-Detector-with-Remote-Alarm/dp/B000SOLFZC

    And I used (and still use) a video monitor made by the Summer company. I LOVE this - I can keep track of my mother's every move, if I wish. They don't seem to make my model any longer, but these are similar:
    http://www.summerinfant.com/clearsightdigitalcolorvideomonitor

    I finally had to stop using the plain audio monitor, because I would lie awake listening in on my mother and wondering what she was doing. If I had it to do again, I'd get the motion detector with the remote alarm and the video/audio monitor and not get the baby monitor. But everyone is different. I know your struggles. Good luck.
     

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