Mother keeping live-in carer awake at night

[Brizzle]

Qq

Hello @ Bizzle and welcome to DTP.
Im glad you have found care that suits your mother



I noticed the bit that I have put into bold.
Yes, you can purchase care over and above the ammount that Social Services will fund and you can certainly use Local Authority funding towards live in care, but unless there are very exceptional circumstances (which I expect will become more and more rare as the Local Authority has less funding) Social Services will not fully fund 24 hr live-in care.

Hi Canary,
I have not suggested that my mother has to pay nothing. Of course there is always a means test and a persons contribution calculated which then has to be paid each month. I’m guessing the same goes for care homes. The LA in mum’s case have an upper limit they would allow for a care home and basically applied that to an allowance towards live in care.

The cost of the live in care provided was somewhat more expensive than a care home but the care needs assessor was then able to go to her manager to request the extra funds based on her assessment of what at this time was best for my mum. Basically social services have a duty of care and the assessor was in agreement with us that sending my mum to a care home would be detrimental to her mental and general well being. It’s great that at least some LA’s are following the principles of “duty of care” and doing the right thing while according to many on various forums they are giving a blanket, “we don’t fund live in care”.

Just trying to get it out there that if people really feel that live in care has worked and is for the time being what is best they should try and fight their corner on the LA’s obligations regarding “duty of care”. If my local authority had bluntly said “we don’t do that” there is no way I would have accepted that lying down, I would have followed the appeals process until it was fully exhausted.

Under the current situation my mum is currently paying around 25% of costs from her pension and attendance allowance etc. Included in the cost are 3 days cover with another carer who covers live in carers daily 2 hour breaks while I have to contribute 4 days cover towards cost which is better than the 7 days I had to cover when mum was funding privately. Mum also does not have to provide the carer with £40 pw food allowance now we are with the local authority.

 

[Brizzle]

Members are posting on here with information about their own experiences. I'm afraid that social services will not fully fund 24 hr live in care, which was my experience with my mother in law who lived in an outer London borough .

Hi Rosetta,
I am sorry you were unable to get funding for 24 hr live in care in your area. My point was merely reflecting my own experience where due to people’s personal negative experiences on various forums they would write things such as “social services do not help to finance live in care”. It led me to believe that this was the case around the whole country for a short while when in fact as my mother’s case has proven this is not the case.

Of course if someone is unavailable to give anything from their pension or attendance allowance ,however little, then I can see things are going to be quite a bit more difficult to twist the local authorities arm.

I’m interested to know if you just accepted what you were told or did you make an appeal arguing that live in care was the best option for your mother and her mental and general well being?

 

[Brizzle]

Hi @Brizzle and welcome to Dementia Talking Point. This is a very supportive and helpful community, and I hope you find it useful.
I'm really pleased that social services have agreed to continue to support your mother living at home, but this is not an option that would be right for everyone, and there are plenty of examples here where people have enquired about twenty-four hour care to be told that isn't something their social services department funds.
Yes it would be great if every person got exactly the care they needed from social services, but live in care at home doesn't suit everyone for a variety of reasons. It would have been a disaster for my mother for instance.
If you do think someone has said something on this forum that you feel is misinformation please use the report button, so it can be looked at.

Hi Sarasa , thanks for the welcome.

I totally agree live in care is not the right option for everybody and indeed one day it will probably not be right for my mum but I think you will agree that the subject of my post was not really in direct regard to that. Indeed I would expect social services not to help fund live in care if the person with dementia was at such a stage that they required 2 carers around the clock and it was obvious that a care home was the best place for them. That decision would be what was required under their duty of care assessment.

Although many people are being told “we don’t fund this” I wonder how many people appeal or question it? It could be that the LA are only refusing to help fund the live in care due to the severity of dementia involved and perhaps 2 carers or more would be needed. I guess there is no definitive answer to this, everybody is different with different needs that probably reflects in the different LA’s decision making.

I was just trying to encourage people to fight for what is best for their loved ones and not just put up with what they are being told by certain LA’s .Please do not be fobbed off in the first instance and perhaps make an appeal under the social services “ duty of care” clause. Basically I’m trying to put in a positive spin where everybody seems to be reporting back so negatively regarding funding due to personal experience but rarely seem to elaborate on whether they made any efforts to appeal or similar.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Hi Rosetta,
I am sorry you were unable to get funding for 24 hr live in care in your area. My point about “ misinformation” which has now been changed to “information “ was merely reflecting my own experience where due to people’s personal negative experiences on various forums they would write things such as “social services do not help to finance live in care”. It led me to believe that this was the case around the whole country for a short while when in fact as my mother’s case has proven this is not the case.

Of course if someone is unavailable to give anything from their pension or attendance allowance ,however little, then I can see things are going to be quite a bit more difficult to twist the local authorities arm.

I’m interested to know if you just accepted what you were told or did you make an appeal arguing that live in care was the best option for your mother and her mental and general well being?

I never applied for social services funding because my mother in law was totally self-funding and in fact, never had any input from social services whatsoever. The only reason I know the position in my mother in law's area was that I received a call from social services after my mother in law called out police and a referral was made to social services. During the conversation, the social worker stated that they would not fund it under any circumstances. My mother in law wouldn't have tolerated a live in carer and once she became aggressive with her shorter care visits in place, this was one of the tipping points for her to go into care .

 

[canary]

May I ask a bit more about the funding @Brizzle ?
Although I know that you can get direct payment for care at home, in all the time I have been on these boards I have never come across anyone who has managed to get the equivalent of a care home payment. Usually what you get is agreed by the LA up to their maximum - which is usually 2 carers x 4 a day. So I am curious.

You say that it is like a care home where you often have to pay extra. However, in this case the extra amount, over and above the LAs standard rate is what is known as a "top-up" fee and cannot be paid by the resident. It has to be paid by a third party - usually the family. The LA will come up with a calculation saying how much they will pay, how much the resident will pay and the rest is a top-up fee paid by the family. Nevertheless, you seem to be implying that your mum is paying all the extra herself. Is this correct? If it is, in fact, correct, then your mum will get through her savings at a much faster rate than she would do if she were in a care home and the LA will be paying a fair bit more. TBH, I am frankly astonished that the LA is willing to fund this.

 

[Brizzle]

@canary all I can tell you is a needs assessment was carried out whereby they agreed my mum was better off being cared for at home rather than in a care home. Once my mums savings reached the higher threshold after self funding for a number of years a financial assessment was carried out to determine what from her monthly income she could afford to pay, This is not complicated as there is one rate for all irrespective of the size of your property or the energy and other bills you encounter. So they allow you to keep an amount that is considered adequate enough for an individual to live on every 4 weeks. You can fight for an extra few small allowances such as increased use of washing machine , chiropodist etc but it does not amount to much.

After this sum is calculated everything else from mum’s total monthly income goes towards the cost of her care. Yes they did come back to me with the top up word and whether I could help fund the extra amount over and above the amount that they would fund somebody in a care home but since I am an out of work single dad who for a number of years was my mum’s main carer and still covering daily live in carer breaks I duly advised that this was not possible. I did say however that my mum staying home was paramount for her well being and if need be we could use up the rest of her savings (which is what mum would want) and if needed even get equity release on her house.However as you have advised once the LA have accepted responsibility the “resident” in a care home cannot be charged for this additional amount and I guess that’s why I was told they were not allowed to take anything further from my mum.

The care assessor who had already agreed live in care was best for my mum therefore had to go back to the manager to try and get them to agree to the extra funding. Not only was this agreed but they were good enough also to cover the cost of some of the live in carers 2 hour breaks thereby taking a lot of pressure off myself and consequently opening up the job market to myself for the first time in years.

So there you have it. I had done a lot of research prior to my contact with social services and had read that it was not impossible to get a direct payment to cover the cost of employing your own live in carer or indeed for the council to use a preferred care provider for live in care. The main thing is to prove the case that live in care is the best option for your loved one. I had read a lot about the “duty of care” the LA had in doing what was best for an individual with dementia and therefore all my effort went into that. On the day the assessor arrived she like myself and others clearly saw that staying at home for now at least was in my mum’s best interest and with a virtuous and true “ duty of care” spirit saw that is exactly what my mother got.



I

 

[canary]

@Brizzle - I can only say that I am staggered. Well done.

 

[Brizzle]

@Brizzle - I can only say that I am staggered. Well done.

Thanks @canary ....it was easy...joking of course!