Mother asked to leave care Home due to aggression

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
well what a year it’s been...

Almost to the day, mom was admitted to hospital from living in her own flat, 6 weeks later discharged to a care home I had to fight for since I was her only family and heavily pregnant with my first baby. With no one else to help us I had to push for a care Home and in the 10 months she’s been there there have been problems.

In January she did nothing but sleep and refuse water and food. She lost a tremendous amount of weight over a couple of weeks and even had a chat with her gp about end of life care. But she bounced back as a lot of you have described your loved ones did.
Still frail but mobile she hit out at other residents on various occasions. Nothing too serious but enough to do safe guarding reports.

Last week she hit another resident with a mug and that was the last straw for the Home

I got a vague phonecall today saying they’re having a meeting with the LA (she is not self funding but I do pay a top up) and the mental health nurse to find another home for her cos they can no longer deal with the incidents.

I’ve only been informed for maybe 5 incidents and two were def provoked, they even said so. I knew that homes can turf out aggressive residents but I also knew that this type of behaviour is known to professionals caring people with Alzheimer’s.

I guess secretly I kinda thought it’d have to get way worse than this for them to come to the decision. I do of course care that other people’s loved ones have been hurt by my mum, I’m not ignoring that at all.

The home have asked (with no real reason other than she doesn’t fit in, no further explanation) in the past to move mum to another location of theirs away from me and I’ve said no after she had a huge downturn in January. In the back of my head it kinda feels like they’re pushing her out cos they wanted to anyway.

But I’m not gonna argue with them, I know they also have to look after the other residents.
They will call me tomorrow with more info after their meeting and then I’ll find out how soon she has to be moved etc

New CH will have to be able to deal with aggression and I can’t imagine there’s a lot of them so choices will be minimal if at all and possibly far away. I’m not feeling positive at all and are already barely coping with the anxiety of our situation let alone the move.

Have any of you here had to move a loved one at short notice to a new care Home due to aggression? How did the Home come to their decision? How much notice did they give you? If you were not self funding, were you given any choices?

Thank you ❤️
 

Baker17

Registered User
Mar 9, 2016
3,382
0
well what a year it’s been...

Almost to the day, mom was admitted to hospital from living in her own flat, 6 weeks later discharged to a care home I had to fight for since I was her only family and heavily pregnant with my first baby. With no one else to help us I had to push for a care Home and in the 10 months she’s been there there have been problems.

In January she did nothing but sleep and refuse water and food. She lost a tremendous amount of weight over a couple of weeks and even had a chat with her gp about end of life care. But she bounced back as a lot of you have described your loved ones did.
Still frail but mobile she hit out at other residents on various occasions. Nothing too serious but enough to do safe guarding reports.

Last week she hit another resident with a mug and that was the last straw for the Home

I got a vague phonecall today saying they’re having a meeting with the LA (she is not self funding but I do pay a top up) and the mental health nurse to find another home for her cos they can no longer deal with the incidents.

I’ve only been informed for maybe 5 incidents and two were def provoked, they even said so. I knew that homes can turf out aggressive residents but I also knew that this type of behaviour is known to professionals caring people with Alzheimer’s.

I guess secretly I kinda thought it’d have to get way worse than this for them to come to the decision. I do of course care that other people’s loved ones have been hurt by my mum, I’m not ignoring that at all.

The home have asked (with no real reason other than she doesn’t fit in, no further explanation) in the past to move mum to another location of theirs away from me and I’ve said no after she had a huge downturn in January. In the back of my head it kinda feels like they’re pushing her out cos they wanted to anyway.

But I’m not gonna argue with them, I know they also have to look after the other residents.
They will call me tomorrow with more info after their meeting and then I’ll find out how soon she has to be moved etc

New CH will have to be able to deal with aggression and I can’t imagine there’s a lot of them so choices will be minimal if at all and possibly far away. I’m not feeling positive at all and are already barely coping with the anxiety of our situation let alone the move.

Have any of you here had to move a loved one at short notice to a new care Home due to aggression? How did the Home come to their decision? How much notice did they give you? If you were not self funding, were you given any choices?

Thank you ❤️
I’ve not had any experience of this, but just wondered if you should have been asked to the meeting?
 

mumsgone

Registered User
Dec 23, 2015
924
0
Hi,
what a very difficult situation you are in.Is the home your mum is in specifically for people with dementia because if it is they should be able to cope with your mums actions ! My stepfather was moved quite quickly from one home to another due to his in appropriate behaviour ie peeing in the waste bin in the lounge among other things. He was moved on the weekend and sadly died the following Wednesday due to the fact he had sepsis which was not picked up by the home! I know of a home in Bognor which is dementia orientated where they even have a man who used to be a boxer and can be quite aggressive and they deal with it ! As she is not self funding You will be at the mercy of the LA but fight your mum's corner as much as you can she still has the right to dignity and to be well cared for. Good luck xx
 

Ron-Life

New member
Jun 18, 2018
2
0
Hi,
what a very difficult situation you are in.Is the home your mum is in specifically for people with dementia because if it is they should be able to cope with your mums actions ! My stepfather was moved quite quickly from one home to another due to his in appropriate behaviour ie peeing in the waste bin in the lounge among other things. He was moved on the weekend and sadly died the following Wednesday due to the fact he had sepsis which was not picked up by the home! I know of a home in Bognor which is dementia orientated where they even have a man who used to be a boxer and can be quite aggressive and they deal with it ! As she is not self funding You will be at the mercy of the LA but fight your mum's corner as much as you can she still has the right to dignity and to be well cared for. Good luck xx
I’ve not had any experience of this, but just wondered if you should have been asked to the meeting?
 

Ron-Life

New member
Jun 18, 2018
2
0
It saddens me to hear you are going through this. I was given 48 hrs to remove Dad for similar reasons. I now understand more about these situations and can only speak from
Personal experience. My strongest advice would be to not accept second best for your Mum. Only accept the safest and best environment for her to live. Do not be bullied by the system. It must be so hard for you-stay strong and you will find the courage to make the right decision. Be reassured you are helping your Mum to the best of your ability and could not do anymore. There are some fantastic CH placements out there - fight for your mums right to be there irrespective of cost. Good luck x
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,064
0
Salford
My wife's in an EMI nursing home and we get people that have been kicked out of other homes, sometimes in the same group, sometimes not but usually being "too challenging" for where they were because that's what the home specialises in.
Throwing mugs and peeing in bins! I hate it when they get their soiled pad off and throw that at you or the woman the other day threw her drink over me.
If the LA are funding they like as not you won't get a lot of choice and when aggression is added in then the choice will be even more limited, if the group have another home that will take challenging behaviour and you're happy with the way the group has performed so far then I'd give it some serious consideration.
As the LA are involved then they have to find somewhere that can meet her needs without a top up so I'd be tempted to say you can no longer pay the top up and see what they offer you then. It'll probably be the same place but they'll put funded nursing care in place, seems to be the way it works.
The residents do have rights and I know you have acknowledged that in your post, but it's likely the home have decided that it's only going to get worse so how far do they let it go?
They can't wit until she actually does hard someone be it a resident or a member of the staff before they do something, that could be considered negligent.
Good luck
K
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
well what a year it’s been...

Almost to the day, mom was admitted to hospital from living in her own flat, 6 weeks later discharged to a care home I had to fight for since I was her only family and heavily pregnant with my first baby. With no one else to help us I had to push for a care Home and in the 10 months she’s been there there have been problems.

In January she did nothing but sleep and refuse water and food. She lost a tremendous amount of weight over a couple of weeks and even had a chat with her gp about end of life care. But she bounced back as a lot of you have described your loved ones did.
Still frail but mobile she hit out at other residents on various occasions. Nothing too serious but enough to do safe guarding reports.

Last week she hit another resident with a mug and that was the last straw for the Home

I got a vague phonecall today saying they’re having a meeting with the LA (she is not self funding but I do pay a top up) and the mental health nurse to find another home for her cos they can no longer deal with the incidents.

I’ve only been informed for maybe 5 incidents and two were def provoked, they even said so. I knew that homes can turf out aggressive residents but I also knew that this type of behaviour is known to professionals caring people with Alzheimer’s.

I guess secretly I kinda thought it’d have to get way worse than this for them to come to the decision. I do of course care that other people’s loved ones have been hurt by my mum, I’m not ignoring that at all.

The home have asked (with no real reason other than she doesn’t fit in, no further explanation) in the past to move mum to another location of theirs away from me and I’ve said no after she had a huge downturn in January. In the back of my head it kinda feels like they’re pushing her out cos they wanted to anyway.

But I’m not gonna argue with them, I know they also have to look after the other residents.
They will call me tomorrow with more info after their meeting and then I’ll find out how soon she has to be moved etc

New CH will have to be able to deal with aggression and I can’t imagine there’s a lot of them so choices will be minimal if at all and possibly far away. I’m not feeling positive at all and are already barely coping with the anxiety of our situation let alone the move.

Have any of you here had to move a loved one at short notice to a new care Home due to aggression? How did the Home come to their decision? How much notice did they give you? If you were not self funding, were you given any choices?

Thank you ❤️

Hi Pitufi, I was kind of in the same situation as you about 6 weeks ago, but slightly different as my dad is self funding, but I certainly know how stressful this situation can be.

I won't go into too much detail about what happened with my dad (I do have a post 'Crisis point after 9 days in care home' if you want to know more). However after a week of my dad going into a lovely EMI care home, my dad became too challenging for them, he kept trying to escape, so they asked for him to be removed.

The first thing that happened was we had a Crisis meeting with the care home manager and the Social worker to agree a way forward until we could find dad a new care home. You don't mention if you were invited to the meeting you were told about? If it was my mother that is the first thing I would have insisted on, even though your mum is not self funding you are paying a top up so I would say you have some say in her care (I also agree Kevinl, don't volunteer to carry on paying a top up for when she is moved). At this meeting the care home said they needed dad to be removed by the end of the week, the SW said this was not possible, they can't just turf them out until a new place is found. So for us it was agreed that we would have to pay for a 121 agency nurse for 8 hours a day until he could be moved, your Social worker (I presume you have one) should be speaking to the care home and you to try find the best solution for your mum's care until she can be moved, the LA should offer you I believe 2 choices for you to consider but consider which is in the best interests of your mother and you her family, if you are unable to visit due to distance etc, this could have an effect on your mum.

It took almost 4 weeks for me to find a suitable care home for my dad, as the new home has to do an assessment and agree to take them, so don't panic, the home can't do anything until a new home is found.

I was advised to look for EMI care homes with a dedicated Dementia unit, sometimes now called Dementia+, this is maybe what the care home your mum is currently staying in might have been suggesting. Some care homes that are part of a group may have better facilities for dealing with challenging behaviour. The problem with this though is that they are much more expensive, the home my dad is in now is fantastic and no behaviour is too challenging, they also have a smaller ratio of residents to staff 3:1, so cope better, but this does come at a cost, we are now paying twice as much as we paid at the previous care home, which was a bit of a shock. This is were your problem might be, however it is the duty of the LA to find a suitable home and they can find the funds if necessary to pay for it. There is also NHS Continuing Health care funding to consider too, not everyone is eligible and it is difficult to get but it could be worth trying for, your mum's Social worker could start this process.

Good luck.
Elle x
 

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
Thank you all for your replies, I appreciate hearing your stories and suggestions

Yesterday they told me they could possibly move her to another one of their CH branches farther away. We visited the Home and it was basically the same but with less residents so I hoped they’d have more carers per patient as she does currently, and maybe it’d help with her aggression

Today the second home assessed her and they will not be taking her on. I was not given a lot of information as to why other than basically they will not be able to handle her.

The phone call ended with her current CH saying they will speak with her GP as to what step to take next. I asked a lot of questions cos I simply don’t know what will happen to her and what type of care she needs. The lady on the phone was not able to answer any questions and just said they’ll call back tomorrow with more info. They said they will be talking to the LA who fund the vast majority of mum’s care but again, no further info. I’m feeling very much in the dark
My mum doesn’t have a social worker attached so I don’t know who to call to find out what might be happening next

Will mum be sectioned? I don’t even think I know what that means. What happens when someone is sectioned? Do they go to a hospital indefinitely? Or more like a home for violent patients?

So far I’ve only dealt with standard CH stuff but this seems like a different league coming up
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,064
0
Salford
Will mum be sectioned? I don’t even think I know what that means. What happens when someone is sectioned? Do they go to a hospital indefinitely? Or more like a home for violent patients?
So far I’ve only dealt with standard CH stuff but this seems like a different league coming up
My wife was sectioned for 6 months and to be honest it was the best thing that ever happened.
She was sectioned after a best interests meeting at the local hospital A&E and transferred to a secure assessment unit run by the NHS. It's part of the memory clinic and even though I'd been in the place many times with my wife I never realised that round the back there were three 20 bed units hidden away.
She got the best care possible there, they had everything from doctors, occupational therapists, psychologists and loads of care staff. They tried all kinds of medication until they found something that worked and just the passage of time made the aggression much less of a problem although she is still a bit shouty.
In the A&E a social worker stepped in (previously we didn't have one) and an Independent Mental Capacity Advisor who gave me all the details if I even need to ask them anything.
When she moved on they both stayed with her as do the people from the memory clinic.
That's how it works here but it seems to be down to the LA and the local NHS how they do it.
K
 

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
My wife was sectioned for 6 months and to be honest it was the best thing that ever happened.
She was sectioned after a best interests meeting at the local hospital A&E and transferred to a secure assessment unit run by the NHS. It's part of the memory clinic and even though I'd been in the place many times with my wife I never realised that round the back there were three 20 bed units hidden away.
She got the best care possible there, they had everything from doctors, occupational therapists, psychologists and loads of care staff. They tried all kinds of medication until they found something that worked and just the passage of time made the aggression much less of a problem although she is still a bit shouty.
In the A&E a social worker stepped in (previously we didn't have one) and an Independent Mental Capacity Advisor who gave me all the details if I even need to ask them anything.
When she moved on they both stayed with her as do the people from the memory clinic.
That's how it works here but it seems to be down to the LA and the local NHS how they do it.
K
Well that puts me at ease if we end up going down that route. Thank you so much for taking time explain. Now I just have to wait for them to get back in touch tomorrow
 

Scriv

Registered User
Feb 2, 2018
88
0
My PWD with very challenging behaviour was sectioned and like Kevinl, it was also the best thing that could have happened for us. He was sectioned under Section 2 for assessment, in which time they seemed to really get to grips with him and managed to change his medication and make him so much less aggressive.
They then recommended he had 24/7 EMI Nursing Care, which meant that we were referred to Nursing Homes who were able to deal with him as he deserved and where he got the proper care. Without such a referral, it had been proving impossible for us to find somewhere who would accept him.
Good luck.
 

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
Hi again

Nothing has happened since all this started. I called the LA yest for the 4rth time and still not social worker allocated to mom meaning no one is trying to sort out this mess

Mom has had a small medicine cabinet fitted in her room which I’m guessing if for when she gets agitated and they can get medication to sedate her quickly but I’ve not had a chance to speak with the nurse at the care Home yet

I only have 2-3 days a week where I can visit due to being back at work and having my baby daughter. Over the last few visits since she was prescribed a medication whose name I can’t remeber right now to calm her down, she’s been knocked out.
We will come to her room and she’s ‘asleep’ in her bed her eyes flutter and sometimes are open and she moves slightly but cannot reply or engage. My visits recently have been mixed, sometimes morning, sometimes afternoon and on different days of the ones I can visit, and she’s been out like that 3/5 visits or so

I’ll be calling the home today to find out how often my mom is being given the new medication
I understand she’s aggressive and lashes out but surely she can’t be knocked out the whole time till the LA bother to assign her a social worker to look at her case! It’s been close to 4 weeks now

The LA yest mentioned over the phone something about the CH and DOLS, what could they have meant?

I’m now of the mind that I need to call the LA everyday and harass the s**t out of them to get things moving

Does anyone think there’s something I could be doing that I haven’t tried yet to get through this?

Thank you
 

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
Well, after emailing social services every second day and calling between them, forwarding a letter from her GP and the care Home, they finally got in touch yesterday, they’ve assigned my mother a care worker and we are all having a meeting at mom’s CH later today.

In the meantime totally unrelated I found out more about DOLS. Somebody randomly called me to say they needed to speak with mom to do a DOLS.
As it turns out this should have happened shortly after moving into her current CH back in August. The man explained that they are working thru an extraordinarily long backlog of people and finally it’s my mom’s turn nearly a year after moving in.

The DOLS is also happening later today. How mad that it’s taken this long, I didn’t even know anything about DOLS till recently otherwise I would have pushed for it sooner. But never mind. What’s done is done and today is the day.

I’m hoping the care worker is able to see the situation for what it is and immediately find a nursing home that can deal with mom’s agression so she can stop being heavily medicated...
 

looviloo

Registered User
May 3, 2015
463
0
Cheshire
I can imagine how frustrated you must be with this situation - the delays are inexcusable imo - and meanwhile everyone is suffering in some way or other. I hope the meeting goes well and your mum is quickly moved to somewhere more suitable. Like you, I hate the possibility of a PWD being medicated so that a home can manage them more easily. Yes, by all means use medication to reduce anxiety/depression and so on, but to medicate to the point of sleepiness is just plain wrong in my mind. A good home should be able to deal with your mum's behaviour.

I've been looking for a new care home for my dad, who has to move out of his current one because they can no longer meet his needs. It's not urgent though, so I have time to look around. He's self funding, but that just seems to mean that I have to make all the decisions myself. I contacted social care who have provided a little support, but I've been totally stressed trying to find somewhere suitable. Care homes seem to vary so much, even when they are registered for the same things. And as more and more care is needed, then there are fewer to choose from.

So you have my sympathies... and well done you for being so determined and not giving in, your mum would be proud I'm sure. Let us know what happens. Good luck x
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hi @pitufi
good to hear that something is happening
it's useful that the DOLS assessment is also today - really stress to the assessor exactly what is happening and all your concerns as part of the assessment is to check that everything is being done in your mum's best interests and to refer on to others if this isn't the case
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
Im not sure that the DoLs Assessment will be looking at her care. In my experience, they will only be looking at her liberty - things like whether or not she can live independently and whether it is OK to prevent her from going out unaccompanied.
I would have thought that as she is dependent on LA funding, then Social Services would be the people who would sort out another care home. I hope the meeting today goes well.
 

kindred

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
2,937
0
Im not sure that the DoLs Assessment will be looking at her care. In my experience, they will only be looking at her liberty - things like whether or not she can live independently and whether it is OK to prevent her from going out unaccompanied.
I would have thought that as she is dependent on LA funding, then Social Services would be the people who would sort out another care home. I hope the meeting today goes well.
Yes, that's the kind of thing they look at. In our case, they said they were looking to make sure Keith had the chance to interact with wildlife as he is award winning wildlife photographer. I said, look, Keith would not know what a tree is now ... It was most bizarre. Hope it goes well! Kindred.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,324
0
I don't think the timing of the DoLS matters too much, as far as I know it's only important if the PWD tries to or expresses a strong wish to leave the CH, in which case they apply for an emergency DoLS. For other residents there seems to be little urgency - when I was at a review meeting for my mother recently the CH manager told me they are still waiting for DoLS to be done from 2016.

I hope the meeting helps to sort out the best route for your mum's needs.
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
the annual DOLS assessment for my dad was done just a few days ago and the assessor spoke to me on the phone for far more then the 'have you got 5 minutes' she opened with - it was much more than a perfunctory check on whether dad wanted to be in the home - she asked a lot of questions about whether family agree on his care and how he is cared for - ending up that she will have a Parkinson's nurse come and check dad as she thinks he showed signs of being in pain (he's not, he is very anxious) and she also questioned the use of covert means to get dad to take his meds (GP well aware) insisting she will go back to GP and check with the pharmacist ..... all because she has to check what's done is in his best interests (wasn't a best interest 'meeting')
I was surprised, as I don't remember going into such detail last year and wonder if procedures are being tightened
 

pitufi

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
51
0
London
Well, the Dols assesment took place and it’s now in place, the social worker met with mum, spoke with nurse and carers and suggested she applies for CHC funding.
She was assessed for the funding yesterday and the lady doing it said she def qualifies for the lower tier funding but to get the maximum she will need to get back to me after discussing it with the panel.
The nurse let slip that what started all this, my mother being asked to leave, was cos the care Home has now changed to being a nursing home without dementia care so they’ve slowly been moving dementia people out, since even the slightest behaviour problems cannot be deal with anymore.
Then late last night I got a call from the Home saying a family member of another resident visiting recently witnessed my mother being rough handled by 3 carers. This family member was with a health care professional so there’s also another witness and they will look into it. My heart just broke after I hung up. I was at work and couldn’t take a minute to myself.
I want her out of there. I want her taken care of, I want someone to find medication to stop her anger, her torment. I want her to be ok