Moral issues

[feffy123]

Hi all

We are in a real dilemma. My MIL has lived with us for 10 years and now is in the later stages of dementure. We will soon have to find a home for her as life is difficult. Up until now we have not received any money towards her keep. My husband and his brothers now have POA for about a year. The problem is we are now caring full time and she has all her meals housekeeping provided. She tells people that she shops for herself and makes her own food but she doesn't goes out so we are having to do everything. Or on the odd occasion she says she shops she comes back empty handed. My husband asked her a while ago if she woundn't mind contributing £30 towards her keep-bearing in mind we do not receive any help. She said this was ok but then complained to her other daughter in law that we had asked her! So we carried on providing...my husband has access to her account and we both feel that it is only fair that she contributes. We don't want any money for ourselves only for her board and food. The moral question is should we just go ahead and do this? The rest of the family don't bother with us but we both feel it is only right that we tell the family we are doing this. I feel really bad because even if we ask her again she will just say that she does everything-it's a very unfair situation but we do not want anyone to feel we are doing something underhand. Also if she were to look at her bank would we then be accused of taking money?? I'm so worried how do other people cope - if we ask her and she says yes she will only forget. Thanks for any advice!!

 

[Linbrusco]

I wouldn't ask her at all, and if your husband and brothers have POA and are in agreement, them you should be able to set up a standing order (automatic payment) to your bank account for the amount agree upon.
I don't see why you should be financialy disadvantaged caring for your MIL, when she has the means to pay. Given the same situation, (especially after 10yrs) would your husbands brothers do the same?!

I have authority on my parents bank account, and also joint POA with my sister.
I pay all Mum & Dads bills and finances. When they need something often it is easier for me to pay, and then I transfer the money to reimburse myself. I always put a notation on the bank statements. If it is a large purchase I tell my sister first.
I have also cancelled my parents bank statements.
Mum has AD and Dad has MCI. Neither of them would have a clue as to what money thay have.
Although I realise some with AD are not like this and quite particular about money.
Hoping you find a solution

 

[Tin]

I see no moral issue at all, If I paid for everything for my mum out of my own money, I would have nothing. Have you made a claim for attendance and carers allowance? Sounds like you are definitely eligible for carer's allowance.

 

[marionq]

Gosh, you have taken a very high moral stance. You are keeping her. She has funds. She must pay her share. Take an appropriate sum for food, share of heating and cleaning, petrol if you run her to appts etc.

My handicapped SIL cannot bear to part with actual cash so some years ago my husband insisted she make out a standing order to cover our costs. She had no trouble with that because it was invisible. I recently cancelled this because I don't do as much for her as he did. She still never pays her share of coffees, drinks or meals out or in but I can live with that and it allows me to decide whether or not I am willing to invite her so her tightfistedness means the invitations are fewer.

 

[Witzend]

I agree - please don't agonise over this. If someone has funds then they should pay a fair share of costs. Whether they have dementia is neither here nor there. As long as any sums you take are reasonable, I am sure nobody would question it.

 

[2jays]

If she lived in her own home she would have bills to pay

She's living with you - I'm assuming 3 adults in the house - you your OH and her - so one third of all the bills seems reasonable to me. If you ask the OPG for advice, that's what they implied to me.

I "charge" my mum for any petrol I use when I visit her in my official capacity as POA. I do not charge her what I am entitled to if you use the tax rules of 40p, or what ever it is now, per mile. It's cheaper for mum if I charge a tank of petrol. This means I can visit her any time she needs me. If I had to pay for petrol every time, I couldn't afford to visit.





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[Canadian Joanne]

Welcome to Talking Point (TP). I hope you'll find support and information here.

About your diIemma, I think you should have a discussion with the family (do not include your MIL) regarding what would be a reasonable amount for her room and board. If she were to go into care, it would cost an enormous amount. If they are reasonable people, you should be able to come to an agreement quickly. I do understand your point that you don't want to just go ahead. In fact, it might be easier if you open the discussion with an amount already set - £xxx per month.

 

[msbgknickers]

Hi all

We are in a real dilemma. My MIL has lived with us for 10 years and now is in the later stages of dementure. We will soon have to find a home for her as life is difficult. Up until now we have not received any money towards her keep. My husband and his brothers now have POA for about a year. The problem is we are now caring full time and she has all her meals housekeeping provided. She tells people that she shops for herself and makes her own food but she doesn't goes out so we are having to do everything. Or on the odd occasion she says she shops she comes back empty handed. My husband asked her a while ago if she woundn't mind contributing £30 towards her keep-bearing in mind we do not receive any help. She said this was ok but then complained to her other daughter in law that we had asked her! So we carried on providing...my husband has access to her account and we both feel that it is only fair that she contributes. We don't want any money for ourselves only for her board and food. The moral question is should we just go ahead and do this? The rest of the family don't bother with us but we both feel it is only right that we tell the family we are doing this. I feel really bad because even if we ask her again she will just say that she does everything-it's a very unfair situation but we do not want anyone to feel we are doing something underhand. Also if she were to look at her bank would we then be accused of taking money?? I'm so worried how do other people cope - if we ask her and she says yes she will only forget. Thanks for any advice!!

You are not stealing but telling funds for expenses. A caref is about 12 pounds per hour so if look at it logically you are owed a lot of money.

 

[feffy123]

Thank you for your help-it's a difficult time anyone else had this problem?

Thanks

 

[Kevinl]

I (well me and my wife) looked after my Mother for her last 3 years at our home, I've no idea how much it added to; the food bill, the heating bill went through the roof, taking time off work for hospital appointments, all the bill I paid relating to selling her house, my wife giving up her (part time) job, inco pads... the list goes on and uring this time all her pensions racked up in her bank account, several thousand pounds over the years.
I wasn't bother about the money until after her funeral when several people approached us and said "what a marvellous thing you did..." to us both, but did my brothers? Did they hell and that's what really ****** me off. They know perfectly well I'd paid all the bills and I didn't want them to offer me to pay me back but if they'd just said thank-you at least to my wife that would have done.
Don't ask them if they mind you taking £30 a week tell them you're taking £100 a week and if anyone wants to do it for less you'll drop her off with them at the weekend and if your MIL has a problem with it point out a care home is at least £600 a week then take her for a trip round one.
Sorry if I sound a bit bitter about it but I am, how difficult is it to say thank-you?
K

 

[feffy123]

Thank you. Kevinl I understand your frustration. It seems people only appear when moneys involved. We don't receive any benefits as we both work so we are fully supporting MIL. She also owns a property that another relative lives in so she is not short of finances. She just seems to now expect every thing. It starts to make you feel resentful which is not how we want to feel.

 

[Pickles53]

Thank you. Kevinl I understand your frustration. It seems people only appear when moneys involved. We don't receive any benefits as we both work so we are fully supporting MIL. She also owns a property that another relative lives in so she is not short of finances. She just seems to now expect every thing. It starts to make you feel resentful which is not how we want to feel.

Attendance allowance is not means tested; please apply for it now if MIL doesn't receive it already. Helping with the costs of the care you provide is exactly what it's there for. Age UK and AS have people who can help you with the forms and name sure all the right information is included.

 

[feffy123]

Sorry I ment to say she, MIL receives attendance allowance but it is all used up on AS day care. It only covers half a day a week. We had to fight to get this sorted. We helped her get the payment then she didn't want to put it towards payment for her day care but my husband did it anyway as we felt justified with this. But that is the ONLY money we have for her care and half a day is not enough. When she thought she was paying for it she didn't want to go so we had to tell her it was free it was the only way that's how difficult she is!

 

[Spamar]

Good grief. Move to my part of the country, at least you will get a whole day of daycare for lower rate AA, with some left over. If she is in later stages of dementia, I'm betting she could get higher rate, which is two days of daycare!
There is no reason why you should not charge her for care, IMHO. You would charge any other long term visitor and she probably racks up more charges than most. You should not be out of pocket, especially as it seems there is plenty of money around.

 

[lizzybean]

If she were living in her own home but you were doing her shopping for her, you wouldn't hesitate to ask her to pay you for what you'd just brought. This is how it is with my MIL, sometimes she remembers to ask what she owes me sometimes not. Depending how she is I will ask her, if she is a little stressed or anxious I would rather not (could open a can of worms) As I get her pension for her I just take what she owes me.
I know it is not the same situation as yours but food is food whether you buy it & take it or prepare it at your house.

 

[Onlyme]

Start a set of accounts for all outgoings from next week. Include heating when you are at work as well, factor in all your utilities - extra times the washing machine is on etc. care homes are a lot more than £600 around here.

 

[susy]

She should be receiving attendance allowance at the very least and that should be given to you! You are being used by your family as a charity. If she was alone at home no one would object to her paying her bills and for food or in fact for carers visits so why do you feel bad for asking for a really small amount that won't even cover half of what she actually costs you?
You have had great advice on here. Do your homework and work out how much extra you are actually spending while she is living with you. Run it past the other siblings and if they object then tell them how much a nursing home costs and if they want to do it for nothing then pick her up at 6pm tonight. That might sound unreasonable, but to do this for nothing is totally unreasonable and those who expect it from you need to know that this situation cannot go on.

 

[feffy123]

Thank you everyone. But can I run this passed everyone to. My husband has now organised a payment of £50 per week to help towards bills. He did not talk to her about this as she always says she is going to do it but then never pays us, or as mentioned before goes next door and complains. The trouble is I still feel bad I have just been out a got her shopping...she just offered to pay as always but will never do so. It makes me feel awful thinking that I am now using her money and she doesn't know. Should I feel bad? We haven't asked his brothers but will be writing to say that this is what we will do from now on and There is no point in asking her as I have already said but it weighs heavily on me. My husband has also stopped her smoking in the house as my daughter is asthmatic. Should have done this years ago but she never listen when he told her and carried on anyway but now he really stresses that she is not allowed and to go outside. Why do we have go though this ****? We are honest hard working people who only have her best interest at heart we do not and will not take money for ourselves but it feels wrong even doing it for her keep. What if a brother turns up and says to her so you are happy to pay £50 a week...she will get angry I expect as she is so tight and expects us to do it all. .it makes me I'll just thinking about it

 

[marionq]

Oh my. You are too nice for your own good. She would have these costs and many more if she was living independently. Could you get food and board for £50 anywhere? The queues would be a mile long for them if they existed. She is a lucky woman. If she is angry offer to run her back to her own house with the relative who is living there to look after her.

 

[Miss shiraz]

Feffy, you can't put a price on the love and care you've provided over the years, all the stress, hassles, arguments, time you've spent caring that you could have spent doing other things. £50 is very reasonable considering what you do.
We have a card on MILs bank account to use for her food shopping, that comes to around 30 a week, i then cook meals for her using some of the food. So £50 seems a small contribution to make. Also
as others say a CH would be £600+ a week, so if she or any of the family dare challenge, the other option is a CH. Which would they prefer? Or maybe the other family would like to take their turn in looking after her... i think prob not.
I know its not that simple and its easy for us who are not in the thick of it to say this. I'm sure at this stage she would prefer to live with you rather than a CH.
Rather than asking open questions sometimes its better to give them 2 simple options and let them choose... causes less confusion as less to think about. So its CH or pay a contribution to bills? Which would you prefer.
can you give me your address and I'll move I'll move in for £50, escape from my MIL
good luck