Mental Health advice been sent a shocker re CHC appeal this week

[scared daughter]

Ok guys kind of urgent advice needed

Mum has been in a carehome since july, long long story but she failed to get CHC funding and I was told she could have nursing care funding only = i immediately appealed in the july but it has taken to now April before we could be heard.

Today i got a careplan fromt he mental health team, she shows she has been suicidal

it shows she has had behavioral problems but they have signed her off TWO days before the appeal saying they only need to monitor her for her medication.

As far as i know she is on the antipsychotic respiridone - but her meds have bounced aorund os much.

This "lovely" bit of their evidence bumps her behvior down from priority / severe to what?

Can I argue the "well met need" and hte treat a need as if the care wasn't there argument

HELP

This is just another act I feel very cynical about the LA trying to dodge thier duty of care to my mum - did they wait for the appeal until she had settled?

 

[FifiMo]

Well, as another avenue, what does it say about appeals - have they failed in the process perhaps?

I would ask them to demonstrate any improvements there have been so warrant them amending her care plan just two days ago - other than of course an impending appeal! Not only that but they have given you insufficient time to gather any evidence that might be pertinent to an appeal. Btw - when did these suicide threats raise their head - was it before the last assessment? Were they taken into consideration properly last time?

You just have to keep at them - looking for any chink in the armour. Sorry, but this is about the best you're going to be able to come up with at short notice and without any time to prepare.

Fiona

 

[scared daughter]

Shes been sicidal for years - i have asked for help for years got NON i beegged for an urgent review when i took 200 paracetamol off her and told her how bad it owuld be to take htem

NO one believed me its only since shes gone intot he home shes done it in front of other folk that its been recognised

i feel exhausted, battered and utterly cynical however surely this is a 2well met need" without the anti psychotics she would be still running round the streets delusional screaming suicidal thoughts - the review was done last week so clearly done to prepare for the appeal timescales as they have scribbled out the actual review date which would have been later!

 

[scared daughter]

Went to see our solicitor we have a huge problem from past care - was given very strong advice lets see what happens

 

[jaymor]

What has happened is nothing to do with the LA.

The LA will be responsible for care if the sufferer is not self funding or does not have National health service CHC.

When it comes to care it would be wonderful if they worked together but sadly they don't.

Jay

 

[Worried Nurse]

You can argue "well managed need" but as it all comes down to day to day presentation of needs, you will have to demonstrate the skill required to monitor your mother's mental state, as opposed to simply identifying that the medication is managing it - administering medication would be considered 'ancillary' as opposed to the overall need for care. Hope that makes sense? Good luck

 

[Jessbow]

It seems to boil down to one simple thing...
You mother clearly needs to be taken care of, but by whom?
Can her needs be met by Carers or does she need nurses?

The first wont qualify for CHC, the second will.

 

[LYN T]

It seems to boil down to one simple thing...
You mother clearly needs to be taken care of, but by whom?
Can her needs be met by Carers or does she need nurses?
The first wont qualify for CHC, the second will.

Not always
My Husband has CHC-his needs are met by Carers not Nurses

Take care

Lyn T

 

[Saffie]

It seems to boil down to one simple thing...
You mother clearly needs to be taken care of, but by whom?
Can her needs be met by Carers or does she need nurses?

The first wont qualify for CHC, the second will.

Not at all. It's not that simple - nor easy!
My husband was refused CHC and his health needs are met by nurses!

 

[scared daughter]

Interesting replies and our legal advice goes with you Saffie

"worried nurse" what you have told me simply isnt true what about treat a need as if thee care isn't there

If you practicing in this area you might need to bursh up - what I was told yesterday blows that one right out of the water

And the meds are NOT ancillary - especially not meds with those possible sideeffects which also came as a blow yesterday

 

[Saffie]

administering medication would be considered 'ancillary' as opposed to the overall need for care.

I agree SD. My husband's medication has to be administered by a qualified nurse as do his insulin injections.
Carer's fulfill general care duties only.

 

[LYN T]

Shes been sicidal for years - i have asked for help for years got NON i beegged for an urgent review when i took 200 paracetamol off her and told her how bad it owuld be to take htem

NO one believed me its only since shes gone intot he home shes done it in front of other folk that its been recognised

i feel exhausted, battered and utterly cynical however surely this is a 2well met need" without the anti psychotics she would be still running round the streets delusional screaming suicidal thoughts - the review was done last week so clearly done to prepare for the appeal timescales as they have scribbled out the actual review date which would have been later!

Hi SD

Just trying to give you another pointer re meds.

Under the DST 'Drug Therapies and Medication; Symptom Control'

My Husband was given a 'low' score for this as he is generally compliant with taking them. Like your Mum he is on anti-psychotics.

However; (I hope this is the bit that might help) under the DST 'Behaviour' he scored severe. 'Challenging' behaviour of severity and/or frequency that poses a significant risk to self, others, or property. The risk assessment identifies that the behaviour(s) require(s) a prompt and skilled response that might be outside the range of planned interventions'

The narrative read as follows;

Verbally and occasionally physically aggressive towards residents and staff
Is very intimidating towards staff and residents putting himself at risk of residents retaliating
Behaviours are virtually constant.There are no known triggers
Does not readily respond to reassurance
Moves/throws furniture.Some furniture and his TV have been removed from his bedroom for safety

Hope this helps

Lyn T

 

[scared daughter]

Thank you x

 

[Saffie]

Going by what I have read on TP, it seems that a severe in behavioural issues is the one most likely to gain the CHC funding.

Can her needs be met by Carers or does she need nurses?

It is the need that qualified for the funding surely, not who manages that need.

 

[LYN T]

Going by what I have read on TP, it seems that a severe in behavioural issues is the one most likely to gain the CHC funding.

It is the need that qualified for the funding surely, not who manages that need.

Exactly and in Pete's case, although he is sedated, he still exhibits the same behaviour

 

[scared daughter]

vils xx

 

[LYN T]

Mum still exhibits some behavior whilst sedated - just not screaming around the place about wanting to kill herself quite to much.

I am however going to make sure they look at the need as if the care wasn't in place - thats what they are told to do - don't sedate her and she is in mental agony though so it is the lesser of two evils xx

Remember the mantra 'a well managed need is still a need' (CHC statement-not mine)

Take care

Lyn T

 

[scared daughter]

Assesor told me it was the care ont he day that was ALL it was

she banged on and on about it CARE ON THE DAY now about how well a need was managed