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Memory service are clear that he must cease driving

Dutchman

Registered User
May 26, 2017
818
Devon
Hi Jaded’n’faded obviously you have strong views on whether a person with dementia should drive thats not a problem and your correct that possibly a large percentage of people with dementia shouldn’t be given a driving licence,
but were not all the same ,

but I’m sorry I don’t agree because a person struggles with TV remote control there not safe to drive if thats correct not only would that place me in that category but also my Wife who doesn’t have dementia and struggles with TV remote and possibly quite a few others.

I can’t agree with your epilepsy because we all know the driving licence is revoked automatically

But lets see What does the law say about driving and dementia

I live every day as though it were my last because one day i'll be right
Look, thing is Country boy, there can be no room for error when it comes to driving as i’m sure you’ll agree being the considerate driver i’m sure you are. If you’ve been given a diagnosis of dementia the first thing i would say is we are all here to support you as we’ve all been there one way or another. We are not poking our noses into your business but you have to appreciate that licences are revoked only for good reasons.

My wife ( who has vascular dementia) had hers extended for one extra year and then cancelled on advice from the doctor. I was glad as she was becoming forgetful and less able to make quick decisions, much needed for today’s traffic. A decision to cancel a license is never taken lightly but after consultations with all those involved in your diagnosis.

If you’re not sure get a test and let the experts decide. Be aware though that they may only let you extend for a limited period.

Sorry to labour this but safety comes first
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
2,096
It makes me shudder now when I think of how I allowed my dad to keep on driving. He should have been stopped at least a year before he was. I let him drive because I didn't want to upset him and I consider myself lucky that nothing terrible happened. It would of been down to me if it had and I am just thankful that nothing did happen.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
My father telephoned this morning to demand his car back. I sold it last week using power of attorney. He is threatening to report me to the police for theft if I don't get him another car by tomorrow.

I have sent the relevant police force an email explaining the situation and that he lacks capacity for this decision as he doesn't understand his diagnosis, which he thinks is all wrong.

He hasn't yet mentioned anything about the POA but he could try to revoke it. If he did I would apply to the court of protection to be his Deputy but that would all take a long time. I am wondering if I should apply to the COP straight away. My father is so angry that he is saying we may not speak again. He depends on me a great deal, however, for all sorts of things, which he has forgotten about in his fury.

I am not sure if his GP could help, or if there is a way to stop a POA being revoked, should he realise that he could do that.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,641
South coast
He is so angry so he is saying lots of things at the moment which he probably wont be able to follow through. Dont even mention the POA and if he does, just distract him and hopefully he will forget again. Just deal with things as they come up.
He is threatening to report me to the police for theft if I don't get him another car by tomorrow.
Say - yes of course dad, I will get you a new car, just as soon as you get your license back. Then leave it at that. Dont try explaining.

Pre-empting him contacting the police is a good idea.
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
576
I can't answer your question about revoking the POA but I wanted to say that I'm sorry that your father is so angry at you when all you did was put his safety first. Hopefully in time he will forget that he is angry with you as accept your support again.

Luckily for me, my mum very quickly forgot one incident when she got cross with me because I would not take her shopping for some stamps at 8 pm. She swore at me and bundled me out of the house, slamming the door in my face. I was so upset that I phoned my sister immediately to get her to call mum to make sure she was OK. Within ten minutes, my sister phoned me back to say that mum had no idea that she was cross and that she thought I had left early because I had a headache!
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,372
My mother in law often told me she would revoke the POA when she thought I wasn't dancing to her tune. I just ignored her and didn't panic about it. I used to say that when she had sorted it and found another attorney to let me know. She didn't have the ability to "sort it" ,so needless to say nothing changed and I remained an attorney throughout the rest of her life.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
On my visit this week anger seems to have subsided and threats forgotten, although that might not be for ever. I even had some thanks for organising heating oil and my culinary skills. However there were a couple of mentions of trying to get the car back, which I avoided discussing. It might be that talking with carers has helped, they all try to discourage thoughts of driving again. Or maybe he has remembered the conversation in which we discussed how awful it must be for elderly people who have nobody to support them! A cheque arrived refunding car tax so I whisked it away and have banked it in his account to avoid raising the topic. Hopefully we may be on a path to tranquility for now. There will be something else I expect, he is fighting a losing battle to retain control over his own life and knows that. Unfortunately he may again see me rather than the disease as the foe.
 

Helly68

Registered User
Mar 12, 2018
747
@MartinWL - this might not work, as I think you Dad is very intelligent, but is there a small measure of decision making you could offer him, in order to reduce agitation?
With my Mum, who I think was a lot further down the road in terms of dementia progression than your Dad, she liked to have small choices. Mango chunks or an apple? Obviously you have to offer safe choices, and things that are appropriate or appealing to him.
My Dad, who has no dementia diagnosis, but has anxiety issues and is increasingly eccentric, loves animals. I always ask his opinion about anything to do with animal care, even though I usually know what we need to do. We don't always agree but I am usually able to head off really unsuitable ideas and give him a chance to talk about something he knows about and give him the opportunity to feel useful.
Oh dear, that sounds a bit patronising but when you wrote about your Dad fighting to keep control, it made me try and think of small things that can help in this regard.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
@MartinWL - this might not work, as I think you Dad is very intelligent, but is there a small measure of decision making you could offer him, in order to reduce agitation?
With my Mum, who I think was a lot further down the road in terms of dementia progression than your Dad, she liked to have small choices. Mango chunks or an apple? Obviously you have to offer safe choices, and things that are appropriate or appealing to him.
My Dad, who has no dementia diagnosis, but has anxiety issues and is increasingly eccentric, loves animals. I always ask his opinion about anything to do with animal care, even though I usually know what we need to do. We don't always agree but I am usually able to head off really unsuitable ideas and give him a chance to talk about something he knows about and give him the opportunity to feel useful.
Oh dear, that sounds a bit patronising but when you wrote about your Dad fighting to keep control, it made me try and think of small things that can help in this regard.
@Helly68 Yes you are right and my father still has capacity to make his own decisions about most everyday things, so yes he does make those decisions himself. He is happy to leave menu planning to me because he thinks I am a good cook. If there's no risk of harm or serious waste of money that's fine. Sometimes I can persuade him of things, for example I managed to get him to reluctantly agree to have someone in to clean all the carpets. Anything to do with driving and the car is in a different league because of the danger to himself and the public.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
938
High Peak
I do agree that asking the PWD (person with dementia) for advice is a very good thing to do. Yes, it's a form of 'love lie' because you really don't need their advice but it always made my mum feel better if I 'needed' her wisdom!

I lost count of the number of times I'd ask her the best way to cook a chicken or a piece of brisket. In fact she was an adequate but very reluctant, unadventurous cook but she'd forgotten that of course and imagined she had a gourmet background :)
And I was forever taking in paint charts and seeking her advice on what colour to paint my bathroom/spare bedroom - she always had very strong opinions on that and I know it made her feel useful to be asked.
 

Utrinque

New member
Sep 24, 2020
5
Hi MartinWL

Angry dad versus dead pedestrian (or other road user) - no contest, so well done. We still have my Dad's car. We persuaded him to stop driving a couple of years back, thankfully without any difficulties. I told Dad that it would be much cheaper to insure his car in my name, but I would have to be the registered keeper in order to do this. It's still de facto his car, but legally registered in my name. We still use it and it is familiar transport for him. The keys are kept secure and he has never questioned why he can't drive it. I understand you have now got rid of your dad's car, but this option may be something for others, who are facing a similar predicament, to consider.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
Hi MartinWL

Angry dad versus dead pedestrian (or other road user) - no contest, so well done. We still have my Dad's car. We persuaded him to stop driving a couple of years back, thankfully without any difficulties. I told Dad that it would be much cheaper to insure his car in my name, but I would have to be the registered keeper in order to do this. It's still de facto his car, but legally registered in my name. We still use it and it is familiar transport for him. The keys are kept secure and he has never questioned why he can't drive it. I understand you have now got rid of your dad's car, but this option may be something for others, who are facing a similar predicament, to consider.
Great that you managed to to achieve a result by persuasion. Alas my dad would never have accepted any such plan. He believes a great wrong has been done to him and that he is an excellent driver and it is all an injustice.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
Carers report slightly reducing frequency of grumbling about loss of his car, and he seems to have completely forgotten that he didn't want to see me again, so I am hoping that he is just starting to get used to and accept being a person who doesn't drive and doesn't own a car. My cousin's husband gave him a bit of an ear-bashing by telephone yesterday for having given me such a hard time, so that might help, but might be forgotten. Possibly increasing worries about his own health will refocus his attention.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
Now a new fuse has been lit. Dad wrote a pointless letter to the DVLA a few weeks ago asking them to reconsider the revokation of his driving licence but he didn't offer any new evidence so it was obvious what the reply would be. A very supportive local friend called me yesterday to say that he cannot cope any more with visiting. The DVLA reply arrived triggering a new bout of anger and despair, much of it blaming me. In his mind I have responsibility for the injustice that he cannot drive. Driving really is the biggest issue, more of an issue than his health, my mother's health, anything. Most people including professionals don't appreciate how traumatic this is from his perspective, they just think it is normal for a man of 90 to stop driving and no more than an inconvenience. For him it is a devastating, crushing blow. He does come back to blaming me and apparently told the friend he would shut the door in my face, change his will, etc, although I expect those threats to be forgotten. There is no point in rational discussion about using a taxi or the bus. Dementia isn't rational. The friend cannot deal with the despair and negativity and confused conversation around the subject and I think others will also keep away from him because they find it embarrassing listening to his confused ranting. When I visit, this week, it may or may not get discussed, he might keep off the topic and rage behind my back.

I wonder if an old-age psychiatrist would be any help and if I should ask his GP for a referral?
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,850
Nottinghamshire
I don’t think a psychiatrist could help very much @MartinWL but perhaps if you take his side and blame “the idiots “ that stopped him driving while finding a “temporary “ solution like an account with a local taxi firm would help. We know the situation is permanent but perhaps your dad would be happier thinking it’s not until he comes to term with it .
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
315
I don’t think a psychiatrist could help very much @MartinWL but perhaps if you take his side and blame “the idiots “ that stopped him driving while finding a “temporary “ solution like an account with a local taxi firm would help. We know the situation is permanent but perhaps your dad would be happier thinking it’s not until he comes to term with it .
I have been clear with him all along that I think "the idiots" are quite right so that would be a difficult strategy!
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,641
South coast
I agree with @Bunpoots that a referral to a psychiatrist is unlikely to help. I am assuming that you want someone to try an get your dad to come to terms with the fact that he cannot drive? If so, you are doomed to failure. In his mind he knows that he is perfectly capable of driving. What you want is for him to forget about driving, or confabulate a reason such as he decided himself to stop driving.

Unfortunately, many people with dementia develop a fixation about driving (you only have to read some of the posts on this thread to see that) and the letter from the DVLA will just have brought everything back to his mind. Furthermore, if you disagree with someone with dementia, or try and correct them, then usually you become the enemy. Just saying the word "no" used to send my OH into a total rage. However, if you want to maintain your connection to your PWD, then you have to avoid becoming the enemy. This then is the conundrum - how to maintain your connection with the PWD and make them feel that you are on their side, but also make sure that they are kept safe and implement their needs.

The answer is to be "economical with the truth". Dont bring up the subject of his driving and hope he forgets. If he talks about it, dont contradict his world view, but be very woolly in your replies. I know you dont like the idea of "therapeutic untruths", but it is a very powerful tool in your tool box and blaming others (especially the nebulous "them") can be very effective.