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Memory service are clear that he must cease driving

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
If it is any help @MartinWL my dad managed to convince himself in a surprisingly short time that he had given up driving all of his own accord. Nobody had ever told him not to drive again, certainly not the doctor. It had all been his own idea because he had decided that he was probably too old although he had never been unsafe.

I was happy never to contradict him on this.
That was fortunate, I don't think my father will go down that road. He has made an appointment with his GP surgery tomorrow, I think he wants a second opinion. Basically the idea is to keep seeing different doctors until he finds one who will agree that he's absolutely fine. He is in cloud cuckoo land of course, no GP is going to overrule a consultant, but he clings fervently to the slightest hope that he might get his licence back. The sale of the car and the loss of the licence are all intermingled to him and I am to blame for the whole thing, rather than the DVLA who actually did make the decision to revoke his licence. I've found he increasingly remembers things selectively and remembers what he wants to have heard. An aquaintance is a retired GP and according to dad has said it is all nonsence and he's fine to drive. Other people have told me that the retired GP said quite the opposite! Similarly he trots out over and over again that a memory nurse said she had no concerns and stood right there and said that. In fact she called him by telephone and they have never met. A different memory nurse did come to the house and said no such thing. Yet he is capable of rational discussion about some other things. We had a sensible, constructive conversation yesterday about what funeral arrangements my mother would want when the time comes (probably not long) and he was perfectly sensible and rational about that - not the easiest of topics.

I have learned a great deal from DTP so thanks to all those who have helped - I am far better equipped to manage this situation as a result and more prepared for what may happen later.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
On the use of a LPA I know it can be used at once but am less sure that it can be used to overrule the clear wishes of the donor, clearly expressed. I know some people have done things like hiding car keys, moving or selling the car, but this is theft, if the owner is still capable of making that decision, which he is in my case. I think I may have to rely on the impossibility of getting insurance but this may not be enough to stop the driving, which would then mean involving the police! We as carers and relatives don't have powers to control parents or dictate to them. Mine is very coherent and lucid and adamant that his driving is fine.
I came to the conclusion in the end that anosognosia means lack of capacity to understand the decision so that led me to sell the car in defiance of his wishes.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
One more thought is bothering me. Does anyone know of a way to prevent someone buying another car? He might just be capable of that.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,950
Nottinghamshire
One more thought is bothering me. Does anyone know of a way to prevent someone buying another car? He might just be capable of that.
Could you go with him to choose the car...and find a reason why it’s not quite right each time?
I’m sure someone with dementia could easily buy another car if they weren’t watched. Sorry to add to your burden.

Hopefully the salesperson would have to ask to see a driving licence and insurance before he could drive away but I’m not sure about that...I bought my last car 15yrs ago!
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,399
Last time I bought a car, in 2018, I was asked for my licence and I had to arrange insurance. Not sure that is standard practice, though, that was the local Toyota dealer.
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
592
No one asked me about insurance when I bought my new car last year, the dealership gave two days of insurance as part of the deal to give me time to set my own up. But to get their insurance I did have to show my licence but I'm not sure if I would have to have shown it had I refused their cover.

I've been trying to think of ways you can prevent him from buying a new car but am struggling as I think your father has more capacity than my mum did when we had to step in and sort out her finances. We put a limit on how much she could get out from the at one time, "lost" her cheque book and scratched the cvc numbers of the back of her debit card. I know you father would not fall for those tricks.

But during the Covid situation, buying a car is more complicated as you cannot just turn up at a dealership without an appointment. Maybe your father will find the new process too confusing to manage without your help?
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
No one asked me about insurance when I bought my new car last year, the dealership gave two days of insurance as part of the deal to give me time to set my own up. But to get their insurance I did have to show my licence but I'm not sure if I would have to have shown it had I refused their cover.

I've been trying to think of ways you can prevent him from buying a new car but am struggling as I think your father has more capacity than my mum did when we had to step in and sort out her finances. We put a limit on how much she could get out from the at one time, "lost" her cheque book and scratched the cvc numbers of the back of her debit card. I know you father would not fall for those tricks.

But during the Covid situation, buying a car is more complicated as you cannot just turn up at a dealership without an appointment. Maybe your father will find the new process too confusing to manage without your help?
I think that in rural England you can turn up unannounced!
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,933
South coast
Coincidently, I have just bought a new (3 yr old) car. The care dealer wanted to see my driving licence and took a photocopy of it, but possibly not all dealers are that careful.
 

Dutchman

Registered User
May 26, 2017
865
Devon
hi there. the only consideration to the driving problem is “ is someone safe to drive both for other people and themselves”. If there is any hint that driving is dangerous then at least a driving test should be done. My wife had her license revoked. She was no longer able to remember what to do and it was a very hard decision for me to make . in the end the doctor refused to sign an acceptance form. That’s where it ends.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
A person with dementia might pass the practical part of a driving test but many patients would be unable to pass the theory test. There are special assessment centres around the country and I am not sure how they do their work but as we know that difficulty operating equipment is common in dementia it follows that a car is a potentially lethal piece of equipment.
 

Helly68

Registered User
Mar 12, 2018
749
@MartinWL hard as it is, maybe the next bit is to wait.
Did your Dad have a garage he often went to? If so, and you think there is a risk of him going there to get another car, could you contact them and ask them to ask for his driving licence before doing anything else?
I think you are right about the test, but it is very difficult when the person involved in in complete denial of the situation. You may (hopefully) find that whilst your Dad rages about the situation and you, he may well be unable to actually do anything further. In terms of what he says about you or the situation to others, there isn't much you can do about that, though I know from experience it is very unnerving hearing this from other people.
 

Countryboy

Registered User
Mar 17, 2005
1,494
Cornwall
I doubt that I'm talking to a person with dementia on TP but if I am hope this helps

As a person with Dementia I have been through all this “yes I have dementia diagnoses”

That does not mean my Brain has Stopped working,

That doesn’t mean I can no longer Think for myself ,

That doesn’t mean I can’t make my own decisions,

my dementia is just other illness I just have to live with and control the best I can,
I also have Diabetes and Kidney Cancer which needs watching not to worry it's part of growing Old.

Now onto driving ok we know every driver should have took a driving test to prove they are competent to drive unaccompanied on our roads it’s the same with older person driving assessment for people with a disability the assessment is on Driving ability the driver needs to show the accessor they are capable, they are safe, they are not a danger to themselves or the public, just remember a the end of the assessment the accessor has to sign their name so obviously they need to be sure especially in todays blame culture society

PDF assessment application form attached
 

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Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
1,010
High Peak
@Countryboy I have the utmost respect for you but I do feel you are somewhat exceptional in your continuing abilities and skills! You also have FTD which - as far as I know - does not affect the brain in quite the same ways as other dementias do. With Alzheimers and vascular dementia, the ability to operate/understand machines seems to go fairly early on - I'm thinking such things as phones, computers, kitchen appliances, etc.

Would you think someone safe to drive if they struggled with the remote control for the TV?

There's also the problem that things can change suddenly . E.g. one day a person with dementia is driving fine, the next day they can't find their way home. And just as someone with epilepsy might be an excellent driver, it isn't safe for them to drive because they may suddenly have a seizure.

I think a diagnosis of dementia should mean an immediate automatic driving ban. (Sorry @Countryboy !) Because the disease is progressive. If I was an assessor I would be very wary of giving the green light to someone with dementia. They may have been fine on that day but who is to say how they will be next week or in 6 months? It's just too dangerous.
 

Countryboy

Registered User
Mar 17, 2005
1,494
Cornwall
Hi Jaded’n’faded obviously you have strong views on whether a person with dementia should drive thats not a problem and your correct that possibly a large percentage of people with dementia shouldn’t be given a driving licence,
but were not all the same ,

but I’m sorry I don’t agree because a person struggles with TV remote control there not safe to drive if thats correct not only would that place me in that category but also my Wife who doesn’t have dementia and struggles with TV remote and possibly quite a few others.

I can’t agree with your epilepsy because we all know the driving licence is revoked automatically

But lets see What does the law say about driving and dementia

I live every day as though it were my last because one day i'll be right
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
I agree with @Jaded'n'faded . The thing is, dementia is progressive and irreversible. Even if if a patient is safe to drive today there is no certainly that they will be tomorrow. It is unrealistic to expect people to be tested every week. Society must be protected from people who are likely to deteriorate in a way that makes them a danger to themselves and others even if they are currently unimpaired.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
I agree with @Jaded'n'faded . The thing is, dementia is progressive and irreversible. Even if if a patient is safe to drive today there is no certainly that they will be tomorrow. It is unrealistic to expect people to be tested every week. Society must be protected from people who are likely to deteriorate in a way that makes them a danger to themselves and others even if they are currently unimpaired.
I doubt that I'm talking to a person with dementia on TP but if I am hope this helps

As a person with Dementia I have been through all this “yes I have dementia diagnoses”

That does not mean my Brain has Stopped working,

That doesn’t mean I can no longer Think for myself ,

That doesn’t mean I can’t make my own decisions,

my dementia is just other illness I just have to live with and control the best I can,
I also have Diabetes and Kidney Cancer which needs watching not to worry it's part of growing Old.

Now onto driving ok we know every driver should have took a driving test to prove they are competent to drive unaccompanied on our roads it’s the same with older person driving assessment for people with a disability the assessment is on Driving ability the driver needs to show the accessor they are capable, they are safe, they are not a danger to themselves or the public, just remember a the end of the assessment the accessor has to sign their name so obviously they need to be sure especially in todays blame culture society

PDF assessment application form attached
As this form is completed by the driver it is meaningless. Assessment needs to be objective, independent, and informed by family who are able to observe the person often.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
418
@MartinWL hard as it is, maybe the next bit is to wait.
Did your Dad have a garage he often went to? If so, and you think there is a risk of him going there to get another car, could you contact them and ask them to ask for his driving licence before doing anything else?
I think you are right about the test, but it is very difficult when the person involved in in complete denial of the situation. You may (hopefully) find that whilst your Dad rages about the situation and you, he may well be unable to actually do anything further. In terms of what he says about you or the situation to others, there isn't much you can do about that, though I know from experience it is very unnerving hearing this from other people.
Good idea, I will look into it. Thanks.
 

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