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Memory service are clear that he must cease driving

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
895
High Peak
I would find this easier if there had been an incident like the roundabout one. There has been no evidence of any driving mistakes in my father's case. I have not let him drive me for some months so have not been able to assess for myself. This makes it even harder to get him to accept that his diagnosis means giving up driving. He thinks he is just normally forgetful for a man of 90, but actually his short term memory is now very bad. I have not found a good explanation of why dementia affects driving that a non-scientist can understand although it seems obvious to me that a PWD could not cope with a driving emergency.
Would he maybe understand if you explained it as being a bit like someone with epilepsy: that person isn't a bad driver in any way but unfortunately a seizure could happen without warning at any time so it isn't safe for them to drive.

The other thing is that some people with dementia do continue driving. If I remember rightly from when this question has come up before, they can do a driving assessment to prove capability and get a license that is renewed yearly. My details here are probably somewhat inaccurate but could you look into that, by way of offering your dad a 'lifeline'?
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
236
Can you not just take it to your house? If he reports it stolen, explain to the police why you gave done it?
I somehow don't fancy a night in the cells whilst the police wonder if my story is true and in any case they cannot authorise theft.
 

Thethirdmrsc

Registered User
Apr 4, 2018
206
Once you have the diagnoses and your license goes onto a yearly one, I think the PWD should sit a small driving test every year. That way problems are picked up, and the responsibility then doesn’t lie with the family. The DVLA really need to tighten up.
 

Quizbunny

Registered User
Nov 20, 2011
118
Somehow I cannot feel confident in the police on this and in any case they cannot authorise theft. I would want something in writing from the police in advance, and I would be very surprised if I could get that.
Good to read about police powers if the car is taken on the road, that could be useful ammunition.
Have you tried speaking to the police? After all you are trying to prevent a crime.
 

Countryboy

Registered User
Mar 17, 2005
1,476
Cornwall
Simple just get a :
Professional Assessment
Because you want to be a safe driver as long as possible, consider getting a professional driving assessment. Your driving performance should be assessed regularly. Not only can this help you recognize and correct possible shortcomings, it also can result in a specialized drivers’ training plan to help you continue driving safely. Think about getting a professional driving assessment the same way you look at visiting your doctor for annual wellness checkups – as a smart way to identify and manage any physical or mental changes.
Professional driving assessments generally fall into two categories: driving skills evaluations and clinical driving assessments. A driving skill evaluation includes an in-car evaluation of your driving abilities and a recommendation regarding any further specialized drivers’ training. Clinical driving assessments are used to identify underlying medical causes of any driving performance deficits and offer ways to address them, so driving remains a safe option.
Consider getting a comprehensive driving skills evaluation or clinical driving assessment if:
  • You are concerned that your driving skills may have diminished over time.
  • You have concerns regarding results of informal self-assessments, such as Drivers 65 Plus.
  • You have been diagnosed with a medical condition known to impact driving ability (e.g., impaired vision, dementia, diabetes, seizures, sleep disorders, stroke).
  • You have experienced a recent increase in near misses or minor crashes (fender benders).
  • Friends and/or family have suggested that you may not be fit to drive.
Conducted by state-licensed and trained driving instructors, in-car driving skills evaluations can provide a relatively quick and inexpensive checkup. Results may:
  • Show that your driving skills are adequate and current, with no need for specialized drivers’ training.
  • Reveal deficits that could be addressed with specialized drivers’ training.
  • Lead to a recommendation for a clinical driving assessment by an occupational therapist driving rehabilitation specialist (OT-DRS).
Clinical assessments by trained specialists are the best way to learn the true level and cause of a decline in driving health. In some cases, getting a clinical driving assessment can help you to decide if you should continue to drive and if so, under which conditions. Results may:
  • Show you are perfectly fit to drive without restrictions.
  • Indicate you would benefit from extra training or need special adaptive vehicle equipment.
  • Reveal that you are no longer safe to operate a motor vehicle.
If you are interested in getting a professional driving assessment, it’s important to understand the options. Two major types of trained professionals can provide skills evaluations or clinical driving assessments: driving skills evaluators and occupational therapist driving rehabilitation specialists. The services provided by each may seem very similar, but they are distinctly different.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
236
Actually, they can only write and tell him that he must not drive. Im afraid that it will probably be up to you to implement it. Are you expecting that he will read the letter and go "Oh, OK then, you had better sell the car for me"? It might happen, but I would be amazed and IMO he is extremely like to just continue driving, with no license and no insurance.
The DVLA have the power to revoke a licence and then, as you say, implementation is the next hurdle. My dad will want to appeal and take a test, which he might pass as regards the practical side of it, but I doubt he would win the appeal. I think once the licence is revoked and appeal impossible I will be able to sell the car.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
236
Actually, they can only write and tell him that he must not drive. Im afraid that it will probably be up to you to implement it. Are you expecting that he will read the letter and go "Oh, OK then, you had better sell the car for me"? It might happen, but I would be amazed and IMO he is extremely like to just continue driving, with no license and no insurance.
The DVLA have the power to revoke a licence and then, as you say, implementation is the next hurdle. My dad will want to appeal and take a test, which he might pass as regards the practical side of it, but I doubt he would win the appeal. I think once the licence is revoked and appeal impossible I will be able to sell the car.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
236
Help has arrived not from any doctor but from the car insurance company. Predictably they have refused to provide insurance for driving against medical advice. I got them on the phone with my dad so he could hear it from them not just from me. He also spoke to them himself and gave them a lengthy discourse on his fine driving record which the employee had to listen to patiently. They said he would need a letter from his doctor stating that he was now fit to drive before providing cover. So we have asked the GP to do this. Of course he won't. A GP isn't going to contradict a hospital consultant.

What appals me is that the DVLA are so slow and bureaucratic about this, which could literally be a matter of life and death. In my case the insurance had to be renewed, which has forced the issue rather. I have informants who will let me know if he shows any signs of driving without insurance, but I think he does understand that he cannot do this.

Not sure what to do if he forgets he cannot use the car, but one thing at a time. The trouble with the various suggestions of subdefuge or sabotage is that he is not so far down the dementia road that he will fall for that. He knows about cars and would rapidly identify missing spark plugs. He lost his car keys and was making enquiries about getting them replaced, he is quite able to call a locksmith or mechanic and wouldn't be fooled by the ploys suggested.
 
Last edited:

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
867
Not sure what to do if he forgets he cannot use the car
Hi @MartinWL, could you perhaps leave a copy of the letter from the insurers taped strategically inside the car that he will see - perhaps with a brief phrase in bold underneath (something like 'Do not drive'). It sounds as though (at the moment) Dad understands and accepts that he must not drive whilst uninsured. I agree with your comments regarding the DVLA - could you contact them to ensure that they have in fact received the notification.

All the best, it's pretty stressful to deal with I know.
 

JG15

New member
Jul 25, 2020
2
Have you tried speaking to the police? After all you are trying to prevent a crime.
We are having the same problem. My mum had a driving test and her driving was so bad, the test was shortened. She has received her report to say she must not drive and must send her license to the DVLA. After long conversation, she gave her license to me but now rings regularly to tell me I have stolen her license. We had hidden her car keys in her house but felt the car at the house was a trigger. I did call the police and they recommended we move the car. They created an incident report so that if mum called, they were aware of the situation. We have POA but are in the process of registering with the bank so that the car can be sold. Mum still feels she can drive because she only goes into the village but she is completely unaware of how bad things are. It is very tiring and upsetting when she calls to threaten us every day.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,420
South coast
What appals me is that the DVLA are so slow and bureaucratic about this, which could literally be a matter of life and death.
Is it possible that the memory clinic doctor has forgotten to inform the DVLA?
Might you like to make enquiries?
 

Cat27

Volunteer Moderator
Feb 27, 2015
11,603
Merseyside
We are having the same problem. My mum had a driving test and her driving was so bad, the test was shortened. She has received her report to say she must not drive and must send her license to the DVLA. After long conversation, she gave her license to me but now rings regularly to tell me I have stolen her license. We had hidden her car keys in her house but felt the car at the house was a trigger. I did call the police and they recommended we move the car. They created an incident report so that if mum called, they were aware of the situation. We have POA but are in the process of registering with the bank so that the car can be sold. Mum still feels she can drive because she only goes into the village but she is completely unaware of how bad things are. It is very tiring and upsetting when she calls to threaten us every day.
Welcome to DTP @JG15
Well done for removing the car. Please keep posting as you’ll receive lots of support here.
 

JG15

New member
Jul 25, 2020
2
Welcome to DTP @JG15
Well done for removing the car. Please keep posting as you’ll receive lots of support here.
Thank you. Mum was diagnosed just before lockdown and has deteriorated rapidly over the past few months. My worries come from her giving permission at times but literally 15mins later she won’t remember.
We have tried notes in the house and in the car but she destroyed them. We have given her copies of the letters received but she thinks if she hides them, they don’t exist. I have copied everything so that I can keep replacing paperwork but she gets so angry with me and my sister about the car. We take her everywhere but she still fixates on her own car. It’s really hard to get correct advice on what we can do legally and to keep her safe at the same time.
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
2,553
Essex
Once you have the diagnoses and your license goes onto a yearly one, I think the PWD should sit a small driving test every year. That way problems are picked up, and the responsibility then doesn’t lie with the family. The DVLA really need to tighten up.

Dad decided to give up driving when his licence was altered to a yearly one.

MaNaAk
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
699
ive just had the poa letter back and they have to wait in case anyone objects for 3 weeks to 24/8 then 2 weeks after then. the safest thing would get it all this up in your 40s.i didnt think that at 53 yrs i would have to get one for my husband in his 70s. at least with a couple it gets a bit easier joint bank account etc joint tenancy of our council house but i will have to move when he goes all the sorting out from 3 bed house to one bed flat is daunting especially as im limited as to what i can do with my back. i might have to get the kids in for this
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
2,553
Essex
Dear @jennifer 1967,

This is something I am having to consider at the moment and I just want to say that despite my troubles with my brothers (although I had a lovely text from the eldest of my two brothers today) I know we will have to do this together. However there are charities that collect I am going to put it to my brothers that we should get house clearance in to clear the loft and the council will clear the garden sheds.

It looks daunting but it is not as bad as it sounds and I know you will come across a
lot of memories but you can enjoy doing it.

MaNaAk
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
699
maybe it will be easier and make things stronger knowing that someone else is going through it as well. my leg and back is giving me grief aching and starting to go in the other leg ive been determined mind over matter but ive got to my limit. i let you know what happens and thanks just for caring jenny
 

Countryboy

Registered User
Mar 17, 2005
1,476
Cornwall
If you nweant to retain your driving licence then fight for it
If you are told that you must stop driving, the DVLA must:

explain why it has made this decision

tell you if and when you can reapply for a driving licence

tell you about your right to appeal against its decision.

If you disagree with the decision to stop you driving you can write to the DVLA at:

DM Business Support
D7
DVLA
SA99 1ZZ

You must be able to provide relevant information that wasn’t included in the original assessment.

You must also include:

proof that you meet the required standards for driving (these are explained in the decision letter DVLA sent you)

the reference number from your decision letter.

  • If you want to appeal the decision, you will need to make a written application to your local Magistrates Court within 6 months of your licence being refused or revoked. You will need evidence, including medical evidence, to support your argument that the DVLA made the wrong decision and that you are fit to drive.
  • It is a good idea to get legal advice from a solicitor who specialises in motoring/driving offences before doing this to find out whether you have a good case. You can find a solicitor by contacting the Law Society.
  • Legal aid
  • There is no legal aid available to appeal the DVLA’s decision, so you will have to pay for any legal assistance. If you lose you might also have to pay the DVLA's legal costs, so the process can be expensive.
 

Pete1

Registered User
Jul 16, 2019
867
Hi @JG15, welcome to the forum. Sounds like a very difficult situation for you, but you have done everything correctly, in the best interests of Mum and other roads users and pedestrians. All the best.
 

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