Margaret Thatcher's dementia
- Thread starter Brucie
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How very sad ...
Admired the woman she was (at her best), loathed the heartless tyrant she became, and now can only feel sorry for her & her family.
The article by Carol reflects so many of the issues we encounter repeatedly on TP; and of course she is a professional journalist so one would expect it to be well written.
Admired the woman she was (at her best), loathed the heartless tyrant she became, and now can only feel sorry for her & her family.
The article by Carol reflects so many of the issues we encounter repeatedly on TP; and of course she is a professional journalist so one would expect it to be well written.
The BBC article, as linked to here, was indeed well written: not written by Carol Thatcher, but by a BBC journalist/reporter person. Carol Thatcher’s book we haven’t read yet, so we will reserve judgement until we have read it.
The article tells us all what we knew already ….
Many of us have fallen off our chair(s) at some time or other (repeatedly in our experience); we have all been astonished by the fact that our own relatives displayed suddenly (can find no other word to use for the moment but “suddenly”) the overwhelming loss of … something…. some single un-identifiable thing … which took us by surprise then, grabbed us by the throat then.
So, like you Lynne, much as we might have admired the person some time in our past, we also found that she became, as you describe her, a heartless tyrant, and as Carol Thatcher has often described her own mother … so what is the difference between Maggie Thatcher’s experience of dementia and our own experience of dementia?
That would be the interesting new article … news report … if only her position, her power, her fame, and her connections, her ….. and so on … had allowed her to achieve a better experience of dementia.
So, here we are, Carol Thatcher, please enlighten us!
The article tells us all what we knew already ….
Many of us have fallen off our chair(s) at some time or other (repeatedly in our experience); we have all been astonished by the fact that our own relatives displayed suddenly (can find no other word to use for the moment but “suddenly”) the overwhelming loss of … something…. some single un-identifiable thing … which took us by surprise then, grabbed us by the throat then.
So, like you Lynne, much as we might have admired the person some time in our past, we also found that she became, as you describe her, a heartless tyrant, and as Carol Thatcher has often described her own mother … so what is the difference between Maggie Thatcher’s experience of dementia and our own experience of dementia?
That would be the interesting new article … news report … if only her position, her power, her fame, and her connections, her ….. and so on … had allowed her to achieve a better experience of dementia.
So, here we are, Carol Thatcher, please enlighten us!
Margaret Thatcher
My left-wing father only ever described her as the 'Milk Snatcher' ... I sat in a classroom in awe in 1974 as my tutor in an all-female school announced the election of a party political leader and the possibility that the suffragettes may finally have won their cause and some more ..... (Prime of Miss Jean Brodie stuff!) ... I can't say I agreed with her policies ...... but what I have always had is total awe for someone so committed, dedicated, intelligent and articulate ...... prepared to take her stand and fight for what she believed was right ....
Perhaps in her death, she will continue to influence in a way she would never have envisaged? ...... Perhaps now, people will be less prone to comments the likes of ....... 'But how can it happen to someone so intelligent?'
I have the utmost sympathy for Margaret and all her family and respect especially for Carol, who has always chosen her path with responsibility and seems to be walking that line now between public interest, potential professional conflict, her personal sorrow and her mother's dignity.
As a 'fellow daughter' of a sufferer, I wept when I read this comment:
"She was in her 75th year but I had always thought of her as ageless, timeless and 100% cast-iron damage-proof."
Karen
My left-wing father only ever described her as the 'Milk Snatcher' ... I sat in a classroom in awe in 1974 as my tutor in an all-female school announced the election of a party political leader and the possibility that the suffragettes may finally have won their cause and some more ..... (Prime of Miss Jean Brodie stuff!) ... I can't say I agreed with her policies ...... but what I have always had is total awe for someone so committed, dedicated, intelligent and articulate ...... prepared to take her stand and fight for what she believed was right ....
Perhaps in her death, she will continue to influence in a way she would never have envisaged? ...... Perhaps now, people will be less prone to comments the likes of ....... 'But how can it happen to someone so intelligent?'
I have the utmost sympathy for Margaret and all her family and respect especially for Carol, who has always chosen her path with responsibility and seems to be walking that line now between public interest, potential professional conflict, her personal sorrow and her mother's dignity.
As a 'fellow daughter' of a sufferer, I wept when I read this comment:
"She was in her 75th year but I had always thought of her as ageless, timeless and 100% cast-iron damage-proof."
Karen
Bruce, surely this is old new's
Were we not all aware of this two or so year's ago?
I am sorry for Lady Thatcher.
I am also sorry for the thousand's of other's who have this illness.
Iris Murdoch spring's to mind, and lot's of other's. Proves, even with a "good" brain you can still develop demantia.
It stink's.
Barb XX
Were we not all aware of this two or so year's ago?
I am sorry for Lady Thatcher.
I am also sorry for the thousand's of other's who have this illness.
Iris Murdoch spring's to mind, and lot's of other's. Proves, even with a "good" brain you can still develop demantia.
It stink's.
Barb XX
Barb - I think we we aware that she had had a stroke and that she had "short term memory problems" but that doesn't necessarily mean dementia. I believe that this is the first time a family member has confirmed dementia, hence the "news" aspect.
Well, smack my hand,told off there,
Jennifer, with the greatest respect -
Maybe living in America you do not get all the british new's. And, no, I do not believe all that is in the press. But it has been common knowledge for quite some time that Lady Thatcher has memory problem's. Ron has memory problem's, so he has not got dementia ? Good. I will cancel the insurance on the holiday.
Stop picking at nit's.
Have you nothing better to do than to pick at me. Oh, have I been told off
Barb
Jennifer, with the greatest respect -
Maybe living in America you do not get all the british new's. And, no, I do not believe all that is in the press. But it has been common knowledge for quite some time that Lady Thatcher has memory problem's. Ron has memory problem's, so he has not got dementia ? Good. I will cancel the insurance on the holiday.
Stop picking at nit's.
Have you nothing better to do than to pick at me. Oh, have I been told off
Barb
Barb - you asked a question, I answered it. Here is a quote from the story:
"But Ms Thatcher's book is believed to be the first time a family member has spoken publicly of her condition."
And that's all I said.
"But Ms Thatcher's book is believed to be the first time a family member has spoken publicly of her condition."
And that's all I said.
Jennifer, sorry not 'targetting you' specifically (but I guess I am ) but what do you recall of the reactions in the US to Ronald Reagan's 'public diagnosis' ......?
Having been assimilating this news today I couldn't fail to be struck by the irony of these two world leaders and great allies both having to withdraw from both the political and public arena ...... and the subsequent 'outing' (if that's the right word?) of their reasons .......
Did Reagan actually help foster any change regarding dementia care and attitudes in the US?
Sorry, not meaning to put you on the spot ...... sure lots of other people have ideas on the subject ...
Karen
) but what do you recall of the reactions in the US to Ronald Reagan's 'public diagnosis' ......?Having been assimilating this news today I couldn't fail to be struck by the irony of these two world leaders and great allies both having to withdraw from both the political and public arena ...... and the subsequent 'outing' (if that's the right word?) of their reasons .......
Did Reagan actually help foster any change regarding dementia care and attitudes in the US?
Sorry, not meaning to put you on the spot ...... sure lots of other people have ideas on the subject ...
Karen
I'm probably the wrong person to ask Karen - I don't have much experience of dementia in the USA. I suspect that it had no affect, except to make it clear that it might not be a good idea to elect the very elderly, and even that I'm not sure about. I think, strangely the reaction was pretty much along party lines since it seems likely that the symptoms started while he was still in office. So democrats tend to nod sagely and say "well that explains a few things" and republicans tended to nod sagely and say "well if you're a great president you can be president even if you have diminished capacity". The man was not called the "Teflon President" for nothing. To be honest, as soon as the diagnosis became public, or even before, he was completely secluded on his ranch so it was almost as if he'd already died.
Thanks, Jennifer. My recollections around the time of his 'breaking news' are of him being ridiculed. Was that really an 'old actor' fluffing his lines? ... or the signs of a world leader first afflicted by the disease?
It's tragic whichever you look at it, I guess? World leaders or not.
Part of me is holding my breath to see what sick jokes come out in the UK about Thatcher now ...... Sorry, better save the mad and remain hopeful this will show if nothing else how the seemingly strongest can be so vulnerable to this curse ....... and hope that motivates people into awareness and action ....
Karen, x
It's tragic whichever you look at it, I guess? World leaders or not.
Part of me is holding my breath to see what sick jokes come out in the UK about Thatcher now ......
Sorry, better save the mad and remain hopeful this will show if nothing else how the seemingly strongest can be so vulnerable to this curse ....... and hope that motivates people into awareness and action .... Karen, x
Ronald Reagan - President of USA - 1981 to 1989
Had Alzheimer's disease
Bob Hawke - Prime Minsister of Australia - 1983 to 1991
Wife (Hazel Hawke) has early on-set Alzheimer's disease
Margaret Thatcher - Prime Minister of UK - 1979 to 1990
Suffering from dementia
Winston Churchill - Prime Minister of UK - 1951 to 1955
Believed to have suffered dementia caused by several strokes.
How's that for statistics??
Had Alzheimer's disease
Bob Hawke - Prime Minsister of Australia - 1983 to 1991
Wife (Hazel Hawke) has early on-set Alzheimer's disease
Margaret Thatcher - Prime Minister of UK - 1979 to 1990
Suffering from dementia
Winston Churchill - Prime Minister of UK - 1951 to 1955
Believed to have suffered dementia caused by several strokes.
How's that for statistics??
It's fine if you can't be bothered Barb. But perhaps to some of us this news is important for lots of different reasons (and Lord knows I have to be seriously bored to resort to doing the ironing!) Just ignore the thread ....
Nat, thanks for those stats ... there was a link somewhere about 'famous people who developed dementia' ......?
Made me wonder today about all the 'brain-training' propaganda ...... next theory must surely be about over-working the brain? ... Thatcher with her 'mind like blotting paper', famously existing on just a few hours sleep each 24 hours ....... it's so sad that somebody famous (or infamous!) can promote a cause and awareness ... but that is what celebrity and/or infamy does ....... and the respect that someone is an ordinary mortal with ordinary mortal family around them grieving has to be valued ...
I have twittered for many hours on TP about my mum's problems and my inability - or occassional flashes of ability - to cope with it .... as many others have done in their own circumstances in their own way ......... none of that will make any real difference nationally or globally to dementia awareness. Sadly, Margaret and Carol are in a very different and unenviable position ...... but strangely one of power ....
Margaret willl not realise that now ... and I hope her daughter can harness it on her behalf ... and benefit far many more in this country and elsewhere in the future as her mother sought to do in public office, whether we agreed with her or not, without the division of opinion her mother fuelled in her political lifetime ......
Of all the enemies she had to fight ........ perhaps this is one war in which she will have the support of the majority - even knowing the inevitable defeat at this point in time - and can only be for the greater good for hope for the future that others might not have quite the same battles to face?
Karen
) Just ignore the thread ....Nat, thanks for those stats ... there was a link somewhere about 'famous people who developed dementia' ......?
Made me wonder today about all the 'brain-training' propaganda ...... next theory must surely be about over-working the brain? ... Thatcher with her 'mind like blotting paper', famously existing on just a few hours sleep each 24 hours ....... it's so sad that somebody famous (or infamous!) can promote a cause and awareness ... but that is what celebrity and/or infamy does ....... and the respect that someone is an ordinary mortal with ordinary mortal family around them grieving has to be valued ...
I have twittered for many hours on TP about my mum's problems and my inability - or occassional flashes of ability - to cope with it .... as many others have done in their own circumstances in their own way ......... none of that will make any real difference nationally or globally to dementia awareness. Sadly, Margaret and Carol are in a very different and unenviable position ...... but strangely one of power ....
Margaret willl not realise that now ... and I hope her daughter can harness it on her behalf ... and benefit far many more in this country and elsewhere in the future as her mother sought to do in public office, whether we agreed with her or not, without the division of opinion her mother fuelled in her political lifetime ......
Of all the enemies she had to fight ........ perhaps this is one war in which she will have the support of the majority - even knowing the inevitable defeat at this point in time - and can only be for the greater good for hope for the future that others might not have quite the same battles to face?
Karen
Yep she sure got that right,
Seeing that the main angel of getting publicity on selling her book , is confirming that her mother has a dementia, which we already
new in UK , where I would have had more respect for the daughter if she confirmed it not at the same time of the book which is going to be serialized in the Mail on Sunday. meaning making money for the papers also .
So am left wondering
if she have the compassions to put some money that she makes from the book to the Alzheimer's Society,
May be so if she not like her brother Mark.
I think she should of come on to TP to learn what no to do , to keep upsetting her mother & herself , Over Over and over again
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your right about not repeating to her mother about her fathers death, she could learn a lot by coming on this forum.
Dear Karen
I am ironing because Ron and I are going on hoilday.
I hate ironing, but this once, I will do it gladly
Barb X
I am ironing because Ron and I are going on hoilday.
I hate ironing, but this once, I will do it gladly
Barb X
Hi Maggie
Seeing that the main angel of getting publicity on selling her book , is confirming that her mother has a dementia, which we already
new in UK ,
Barb X
Seeing that the main angel of getting publicity on selling her book , is confirming that her mother has a dementia, which we already
new in UK ,
Barb X
Barb.. you say we already knew she had dementia, i do not ever recall this was confirmed to the public at large, just that we had our suspicions
John and I were on a cruise in 2004, where Sir Bernard Ingham, Lady Thatcher's press secretary, was one of the guest lecturers.
He made no secret in his speeches of the fact that she had dementia. He still visited her regularly, and talked about how repetitive her conversations were.
PS It was while we were on the cruise that Mark Thatcher was arrested in South Africa. Sir Bernard's phone rang non-stop, and when we got back to England, we were greeted by hordes of press. The closest I've come to fame!
He made no secret in his speeches of the fact that she had dementia. He still visited her regularly, and talked about how repetitive her conversations were.
PS It was while we were on the cruise that Mark Thatcher was arrested in South Africa. Sir Bernard's phone rang non-stop, and when we got back to England, we were greeted by hordes of press. The closest I've come to fame!
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