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LPA - Bank access - need advice

imthedaughter

Registered User
Apr 3, 2019
508
Thank you,

Yes she was sectioned previously then went into a care home and I was informed it will be funded as a result.
She gets weekly moneys which go direct into her account that I look after and haven't touched except for anything she requires like clothes, incontinence pads etc hence I have been able to build up over the last couple years.
Have you told the DWP that she has moved into care? I learned recently that I should have done that, whoops...

I was also told Dad's care would be funded, which it is, but then he was assessed financially and we have to 'pay back' the council an amount which they have calculated. This amount leaves him with the £24.90 he is entitled to per week plus £20 per month for the SIM in his GPS tracker watch in case he disappears again!

Sorry, I know this has veered off topic but hope it's useful.

I know it's hard to accept the unfairness of the situation but if you 'gift' yourself money the council will potentially ask for it back. Not a problem if you'll have it to give back, I suppose, although hardly in the spirit of the LPA.

If dad was to get some kind of payment/income into his account in the next year pushing him over the threshold to pay for his care, I would have no problem in using it to pay for his care. Waiting for people to die to inherit is ghoulish, anyway. I do not want to be 'left' anything - I would rather dad spent his money on good care now.

I keep trying to impart this to my gran who seems to insist on gathering as much money as she can, saying she wants to leave it to us - in reality, by doing this, it will most likely be spent on her care when it is needed. (This is fine by me, but I do feel a little tinge of 'it's not fair!' when I remember how much she gave my brother to buy his house, but it's her money!)

(My tip is that if you actually have money and want to give it to your family, give it to them now in smaller chunks. Otherwise, you are saving for your care, which is not in any way bad, but be honest about that with your family and ideally, be fair about doling it out. I think a good thing you can do is open long term savings for grandchildren - who won't likely have a state pension when they get to retirement).
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
Have you told the DWP that she has moved into care? I learned recently that I should have done that, whoops...

I was also told Dad's care would be funded, which it is, but then he was assessed financially and we have to 'pay back' the council an amount which they have calculated. This amount leaves him with the £24.90 he is entitled to per week plus £20 per month for the SIM in his GPS tracker watch in case he disappears again!

Sorry, I know this has veered off topic but hope it's useful.

I know it's hard to accept the unfairness of the situation but if you 'gift' yourself money the council will potentially ask for it back. Not a problem if you'll have it to give back, I suppose, although hardly in the spirit of the LPA.

If dad was to get some kind of payment/income into his account in the next year pushing him over the threshold to pay for his care, I would have no problem in using it to pay for his care. Waiting for people to die to inherit is ghoulish, anyway. I do not want to be 'left' anything - I would rather dad spent his money on good care now.

I keep trying to impart this to my gran who seems to insist on gathering as much money as she can, saying she wants to leave it to us - in reality, by doing this, it will most likely be spent on her care when it is needed. (This is fine by me, but I do feel a little tinge of 'it's not fair!' when I remember how much she gave my brother to buy his house, but it's her money!)

(My tip is that if you actually have money and want to give it to your family, give it to them now in smaller chunks. Otherwise, you are saving for your care, which is not in any way bad, but be honest about that with your family and ideally, be fair about doling it out. I think a good thing you can do is open long term savings for grandchildren - who won't likely have a state pension when they get to retirement).
Thanks for the reply,

Yes I completely agree with you. The issue I have is my sister unfortunately. Before I was able to get my mom's bank details she managed to "clean her out" as bad as it sounds and took 6k!
Ideally I am more than happy to give my sister whatever funds are left minus 6k when my mom does pass which I do not wish her passing is the last thing I want!

But obviously want to do this the right way, but afraid that the case will be 50/50 split if that makes sense.
My sister was diagnosed with acute schizophrenia way back in 2012 which really didn't help her living with my mom but that's another story as we tried to get my sister help plenty of times but she just didn't want to acknowledge she needed help and my poor mom took the brunt of it, and I always feel she was just living with my mum for the sake of cheap rent.

Didn't really want to go that far down the rabbit hole but my intention is purely not to take as much money from my mom but to make sure my sister doesn't get what she does not deserve.
 

nita

Registered User
Dec 30, 2011
1,935
Essex
You say your sister was caring for your mother before she went into a care home. You don't know how much that cost as your sister would have had household bills to pay. It is more expensive to look after someone at home than in care when they don't need so much. Your mother may have been contributing to the household bills, food bills, etc. I looked after my mother until she passed and she paid the energy bills - I thought this was fair as the heating had to be on day and night. Your sister may have come to some sort of arrangement like this.

Added to this is the emotional strain and cost to the person caring. How long did your sister have to do this? Also, if your Mum was sectioned, she must have been very ill. You haven't said the circumstances of your Mum's illness progression and how your sister coped over how long a period.

Maybe this will make you feel better about the amount you say your sister spent from your Mum's account.

Just realised you say your sister has an acute mental illness. This would make her behave erratically and I think you can excuse her behaviour on those grounds. In addition, she will probably be struggling to live on benefits. Have you taken her position into account and how she is coping now?
 

nita

Registered User
Dec 30, 2011
1,935
Essex
PS Don't feel you have to go into a lot of detail about your family situation - I started writing a reply before I read the bit about your sister's illness. I would encourage you to take a more sympathetic view of her - my brother also has this illness and unfortunately, in the acute stage it makes the person unaware that they are ill as they have no insight into it.

I would encourage you to support your sister at this time and try to get her the help she needs, as you are doing with your Mum. I know it can be difficult with a person presenting with schizophrenia but you have to remember the person is underneath there behind the awful symptoms. We persevered with my brother and eventually, many years later, he is now stable on the right medication.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
951
High Peak
It was certainly wrong for your sister to help herself to £6000 of your mum's money but that doesn't give you the right to take £6000 yourself to 'even things up'. (Which would also be deprivation of assets.)

When your mum dies you and your sister will get half of her estate each. The law takes no account of who deserves what or indeed what amounts may have been given or taken in the past.

Yes, it's unfair but that's how the law works. Please don't get yourself in trouble attempting to right this.
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
It was certainly wrong for your sister to help herself to £6000 of your mum's money but that doesn't give you the right to take £6000 yourself to 'even things up'. (Which would also be deprivation of assets.)

When your mum dies you and your sister will get half of her estate each. The law takes no account of who deserves what or indeed what amounts may have been given or taken in the past.

Yes, it's unfair but that's how the law works. Please don't get yourself in trouble attempting to right this.
understood....thanks for the reply
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
You say your sister was caring for your mother before she went into a care home. You don't know how much that cost as your sister would have had household bills to pay. It is more expensive to look after someone at home than in care when they don't need so much. Your mother may have been contributing to the household bills, food bills, etc. I looked after my mother until she passed and she paid the energy bills - I thought this was fair as the heating had to be on day and night. Your sister may have come to some sort of arrangement like this.

Added to this is the emotional strain and cost to the person caring. How long did your sister have to do this? Also, if your Mum was sectioned, she must have been very ill. You haven't said the circumstances of your Mum's illness progression and how your sister coped over how long a period.

Maybe this will make you feel better about the amount you say your sister spent from your Mum's account.

Just realised you say your sister has an acute mental illness. This would make her behave erratically and I think you can excuse her behaviour on those grounds. In addition, she will probably be struggling to live on benefits. Have you taken her position into account and how she is coping now?
Hi,

Yes I have indeed taken her position into account....
in fact I tried helping her god knows how many times, I have always been sympathetic towards her but I am sorry I draw the line when I get verbally abused EVERY night by text messages telling me what a **** brother I am and have been to her...lets just say she uses x 10 the language I applied on here, and I will not tolerate her abusing my partner as well on her phone when we have ALWAYS been nothing but nice to her. Sorry but without knowing the true story I have tried my best and had to block her in the end on our phones even after threatening to call police (which i really didn't want to do so the only other alternative is to block on phone).

So yes I do understand, I have been trying to help her for years!
Until you see how it affected my mum etc and me trying to get my mum out of there...

Thats the story.
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
It was certainly wrong for your sister to help herself to £6000 of your mum's money but that doesn't give you the right to take £6000 yourself to 'even things up'. (Which would also be deprivation of assets.)

When your mum dies you and your sister will get half of her estate each. The law takes no account of who deserves what or indeed what amounts may have been given or taken in the past.

Yes, it's unfair but that's how the law works. Please don't get yourself in trouble attempting to right this.
Thank you
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
I would like to thank everyone for their comments on here.

I do appreciate you taking your personal time to comment and I am a lot more knowledgeable knowing what is right and what is wrong.

I do believe I have a lot more to research and note on my own doing and would like to thank everyone for their time and what you have shared with me.
 

imthedaughter

Registered User
Apr 3, 2019
508
Ideally I am more than happy to give my sister whatever funds are left minus 6k when my mom does pass which I do not wish her passing is the last thing I want!
It sounds like a sad situation all around. I'm sure many people would agree with you if it happened to them, but the law doesn't work like that.

Perhaps, even if the relationship is clearly strained, you could see it as 'payment' for the caring your sister did, if reframing it in your mind like that would help. After all, professional help would have been very costly.
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
It sounds like a sad situation all around. I'm sure many people would agree with you if it happened to them, but the law doesn't work like that.

Perhaps, even if the relationship is clearly strained, you could see it as 'payment' for the caring your sister did, if reframing it in your mind like that would help. After all, professional help would have been very costly.
Thank you
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,690
South coast
Something you can do @davepmb is to take out a pre=paid funeral plan for your mum out of her funds. This is not considered deprivation of assets and although it wont address the imbalance between you and your sister, will reduce the overall amount that your sister inherits and will also ensure that you dont end up paying for her funeral yourself.
 

davepmb

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
18
Something you can do @davepmb is to take out a pre=paid funeral plan for your mum out of her funds. This is not considered deprivation of assets and although it wont address the imbalance between you and your sister, will reduce the overall amount that your sister inherits and will also ensure that you dont end up paying for her funeral yourself.
Thank you I did not think of this!

Appreciate your response.