Local authority taking legal charge

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Amy, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    I wonder if anyone is in the position of the Local authority having taken a legal charge over a property?
    How qiuckly is this done; what rights does it give the local authority? Can they say you only have 7 days to agree or object?
    Any comments from those who have been there, or know the answers would be welcome.
    Thanks Helen
     
  2. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    Hi Helen

    The local authority have a legal charge over my mum's home. She has been in residential care for over 2 years now and the house is not sold, nor is there any prospect of it being sold in the near future for various reasons. I am not too sure about the actual technicalities of it. I do know that we get regular statements to advise how much is owed because the local authority is paying the nh pending us paying the local authority back. The 'loan' for care home fees is interest free while the nh resident is alive but interest fees start to kick in quite quickly after their death, presumably to make sure you don't dither in selling up and paying them off. However, all this applies in our case because my dad died before my mum went into residential care. I think the situation is different if there is a 'live' partner and am doubtful that the local authority could legally take a charge over the property if that was the case.

    As far as the rights the local authority have, I believe it means that if the property is sold they would get their 'debt' before anything else was paid to anyone else.

    Brenda
     
  3. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Caring...idential_and_nursing_care/info_payingfees.htm

    Does the person's home have to be sold?
    If the person with dementia owns their home, it may be counted as capital and may have to be sold to meet the cost of care home fees. If the home is not sold within a certain period of time, the local authority can put a legal charge on it and claim back what is owed when the house is sold. However, there is a period of 12 weeks' grace after the person decides to become a permanent resident at a home when the value of the house is not taken into account.

    If the person does not wish to sell their home, or is having difficulties selling it, the local authority may offer a deferred payments scheme. This provides an interest-free loan to cover the amount needed for the care home fees, which is paid back when the person's home is eventually sold.

    A person's home will not be taken into account as capital if it is occupied by:

    A husband, wife or unmarried partner
    A close relative under the age of 16 or over the age of 60
    A relative under the age of 60 who is disabled.
    The local authority may ignore the value of the house if it is the permanent home of a carer.
     
  4. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Helen

    Thank you so much for asking this question for me.

    Is a deferred loan the same as signing a Land Registry form for mortgage in favour of the local authority, or is this something different.

    Time frames.........we have now had two letters in the space of a week asking that we sign this form, it seems like 'big stick' tactics

    Cate
     
  5. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Cate,
    No thanks needed love.
    As I understand it, the deferred loan is what the local authority are offering - they pay the fees until the house is sold.
    The Land Registry form for mortgage is their security - so that when the house is sold, the solicitor dealing with the sale has to repay the Local Authority before funds are dispersed.
    Cate it might be worth contacting the Alzheimers society helpline, or some one from the society may be able to help us out on here.
    Love Helen
     
  6. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Thanks Helen, will phone on Monday.........talk about headache.

    Take care.

    Love
    Cate
     
  7. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    You've got me wondering about this now! I didn't sign any forms, my sister didn't sign any forms and my mother isn't capable of signing any forms. I'm wondering just how legal this legal charge is, in our case :confused:
     
  8. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    The cost system is so unjust. Why is care so expencive? People should not be penilised for illness. i wonder how much these people have paid already in there taxes. Some will still be paying tax. What if a will has been made out and says on it In the event of me getting a terminal illness my property will be for my family and not council (or along these lines) and get a lawyer to sign it.
     
  9. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I am 99.9% sure that that wouldn't work, I'm afraid!
     
  10. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,732
    Kent
    #10 Grannie G, Feb 23, 2007
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
    [/QUOTE]A person's home will not be taken into account as capital if it is occupied by:
     
  11. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    You have got me worried now. If they done that i would have nowhere to stay nether would my son who is unemployed. Makes you think is it worthwhile saving, buying your house, trying to build an nest egg for when you retire to live comfortably. My husband may not see retirement age I still have 15years to retirement age and now nothing to live off.
     
  12. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. The following

    A person's home will not be taken into account as capital if it is occupied by:

    A husband, wife or unmarried partner


    seems to cover your situation
     
  13. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation out there, including from people who should know better (I was once told by a help-line (not AS) that an EPA ceased to have validity if the person became mentally infirm :eek: )

    Congratulations on the Quotes!

    Jennifer
     
  14. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    clarification

    Hello All,

    Post three is the most concise and accurate although other people are making good points throughout the thread.

    The query about a house jointly owned by someone going in to care and their spouse being under 60 is nonsense. There is no age limit on the disregard, it applies to the partner full stop.

    If someone left their property in their Will to their family and stated that the local authority could not use it to pay for care that would not work I'm afraid. Paying for care is a bit like inheritance tax - if you think you have found a way around it you are probably wrong!

    Regards,
    Sally
     
  15. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I think the confusion possibly arises because of this

    A person's home will not be taken into account as capital if it is occupied by:

    A husband, wife or unmarried partner
    A close relative under the age of 16 or over the age of 60

    If you read it correctly then it means the house will be disregarded if it is occupied by a partner of any age OR another close relative over the age of 60 or under the age of 16. As you say, the age of the partner is irrelevant, ages only come into the equation when there is no partner living in the house but another relative is.

    It now appears that there is a legal charge on my mum's house despite the fact that neither my mother or any other family member has ever signed to agree to this, nor have they been asked to :confused:

    Brenda
     
  16. janew

    janew Registered User

    Mar 28, 2005
    51
    Dear All,

    At the moment I haven't got this far - I am coping as my mum goes to a Care Home while I am at work and when I need respite but I can see in the future that my mum will have to go in when I can no longer cope.

    Our home was in her name but when I moved in, she did put it into my name 4 and a half years ago but it really worries me that our home will have to be sold to pay for care - she does have a bit of savings which won't last long.

    Jane
     
  17. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    NO local authority has any right whatsoever to put a charge on your home nor can you be forced to pay for your Mothers care

    Its only your Mothers OWN assets which are counted towards Nursing Home fees and when these fall below 20K but above 12K its on a sliding scale

    In any case its illegal for them to charge your Mother

    Dementia patients are entitled to Continuing Care
    see www.************
     
  18. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    It's not as simple as telling the Local Authority that what they are doing is illegal. Somehow I don't think they will just agree with you and promise to give back any money paid and not charge any further fees. If someone wants to fight this they may well have a long battle on their hands.
     
  19. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Hi Brenda,

    The local authority can place a charge against the property with the Land registry without the permission of the family (which makes sense since few families would probably agree!) . If the family wanted to challenge this they could make a complaint to the local authority and then go to court if the complaint was not upheld.

    Regards,
    Sally
     
  20. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Sorry but :---------

    The local authority can only apply to the land registry to make a charge on the PATIENTS home but the land registry MUST write to the property address and the charge can be challenged

    They cant place a charge on a relatives home anyway
     

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