Local Authority funding and care home fees

[Marbella79]

Hello all and thanks for reading.

My mother is in care and following LA financial assessment has just become eligible for funding at nursing rates.

The care home has just told us that there will be no negotiation from their side and full fees will remain payable (we were expecting negotiation as regards top up payable).

Management also proposed directly to my father (surviving spouse living in marital home so house disregarded in eyes of local authority) that the care home take a deferred charge on my mother's 50% of the house. This was totally unexpected and we have reported the conversation back to the LA.

Is their approach a common one? Do they have a right to propose this, givne the house is disregarded in the eyes of the LA? Any thoughts on how I can get advice?

Many thanks and best wishes to all.

 

[nitram]

It is up to the LA to find a suitable placement even if it means them paying over their tariff.

You don't have to pay a top up but if you do it should be paid to the LA who forward it to the home, the contract is with the LA.

Have a read through
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...es-ombudsman&p=1168890&viewfull=1#post1168890

 

[Pete R]

Hello all and thanks for reading.

My mother is in care and following LA financial assessment has just become eligible for funding at nursing rates.

The care home has just told us that there will be no negotiation from their side and full fees will remain payable (we were expecting negotiation as regards top up payable).

Management also proposed directly to my father (surviving spouse living in marital home so house disregarded in eyes of local authority) that the care home take a deferred charge on my mother's 50% of the house. This was totally unexpected and we have reported the conversation back to the LA.

Is their approach a common one? Do they have a right to propose this, givne the house is disregarded in the eyes of the LA? Any thoughts on how I can get advice?

Many thanks and best wishes to all.

From earlier posts your Mother was self funding and her savings have reached the threshold for the LA to be involved.

The LA must now offer you at least one CH that they will agree to fund in total (apart from her pension and tariff contribution) that meets your Mothers needs. By the sounds of it this will not be her current CH. If you do not like the LA CH then you have the option to leave your Mother where she is (or move elsewhere). However someone will have to pay the necessary top up. Some CH's (as in my Moms case) will accept the LA rate but will not negotiate whatsoever on their normal rate and will demand the full top up.

Also bear in mind that the current CH do not have to accept a contract with the LA. The LA are not obliged to pay the current CH rate unless that is the only one deemed to meet your Mothers needs.

I have not heard of CH proposing a Deferred Payment Scheme but can see nothing wrong with the suggestion. Seeking help from a financial adviser is recommended if you consider it as the set up fees and interest rates may not be suitable for you. The LA are normally obliged to offer a Deferred Payment Agreement but since the property is disregarded they do not have to. It is always worth asking though.

I wish you and your Mother well.

 

[canary]

Im a bit confused about the deferred payment in this case. The property would be excluded by the LA and, as you say, unless the CH is covered by the LA top-ups would be required. But I always thought that the the top-ups had to be paid by the family and were not supposed to be paid by the person. So why are they asking for deferred payment from his half of the property?

 

[Kevinl]

Sounds to me like they're trying to rewrite the rule book to me to suit themselves.
If your parents are joint tenants then she has no "half of the house" if she dies first it goes to the surviving partner only and vice versa, if they are tenants in common then they could use it as security, however, as I say that's rewriting the rules, the house should be disregarded.
K

 

[robinson01]

NHS Nursing fee

Both our parents have recently gone into a nursing home .The family home is now on the market so until the sale of their home they are receiving LA funding £547 each and we are paying the top up fee.
The nursing home is now saying that the £112 nursing fee is included in the LA funding .
Can anyone advise please ?

 

[Kevinl]

Both our parents have recently gone into a nursing home .The family home is now on the market so until the sale of their home they are receiving LA funding £547 each and we are paying the top up fee.
The nursing home is now saying that the £112 nursing fee is included in the LA funding .
Can anyone advise please ?

I believe they're right, as far as I know all "benefits" with certain exceptions go to the LA not to the care home so the LA take the £112 it doesn't go the care home so the care home get £547 from the LA all the pensions, benefits and other imcomes go to the LA.
K

 

[Pete R]

I believe they're right, as far as I know all "benefits" with certain exceptions go to the LA not to the care home so the LA take the £112 it doesn't go the care home so the care home get £547 from the LA all the pensions, benefits and other imcomes go to the LA.
K

Unfortunately this is incorrect.

The Care Home apply for the Funded Nursing Care from the NHS. That is the only way it can be done.

 

[Pete R]

Both our parents have recently gone into a nursing home .The family home is now on the market so until the sale of their home they are receiving LA funding £547 each and we are paying the top up fee.
The nursing home is now saying that the £112 nursing fee is included in the LA funding .
Can anyone advise please ?

The pricing structure of Nursing Homes can vary. Some say the price includes the Nursing payment (FNC) some do not.

The NH your parents are in may be lumping the LA rate and the FNC rate together but it is not actually how they are paid.

There should be contract somewhere between your parents/family, the LA and the NH and it should clearly state who is paying what. In both NH's my Mother has been in neither included any mention of the FNC payment. If you do not yet have a contract then give the finance office a ring on Monday and ask them.

 

[realist1234]

I think you need to check the total weekly cost the nursing home has been charging - you would have been given this at the start. This total charge would include any nursing element plus the top-up. As the LA financial assessment appears to have been done, this should show a breakdown of all the elements going towards the weekly cost - pension/income contribution, savings contribution, LA contribution, nursing element and top-up. If it is not clear, you should ask the LA for clarification and not depend on the nursing home. However, based on your quoted figures, I suspect the nursing element is indeed included within the LA contribution. Please also note if you are getting a deferred payments agreement iro the sale of the house, you can normally ensure that the top-up amount is included within this agreement, as this is catered for within the CRAG rules. I understand this would mean the LA would pay the top-up element as well as it will be repaid to them once the house is sold.

Both our parents have recently gone into a nursing home .The family home is now on the market so until the sale of their home they are receiving LA funding £547 each and we are paying the top up fee.
The nursing home is now saying that the £112 nursing fee is included in the LA funding .
Can anyone advise please ?

 

[realist1234]

Under the CRAG rules, if a person is self-funding they can pay the full weekly cost even if this includes a top-up. There is also allowance within the Crag rules that if a deferred payments agreement is arranged iro the house, the top-up can be included in this as effectively the resident can afford to pay the full fees themselves, but just cant until the property is sold.

Im a bit confused about the deferred payment in this case. The property would be excluded by the LA and, as you say, unless the CH is covered by the LA top-ups would be required. But I always thought that the the top-ups had to be paid by the family and were not supposed to be paid by the person. So why are they asking for deferred payment from his half of the property?

 

[Fluffyval]

La contracts

It is also worth bearing in mind that you ALWAYS have the right to pay through the LA instead of a contract with the home. This sometimes gets missed and some LAs will try to avoid this form of contract. It is in your interest to pay the LA instead of the home specifically for the reasons you have described, where the home are not playing fair.
I had to fight my LA on this and it took a letter from the health minister to get them to do the right thing.
Keep cheerful, or at least keep taking the tablets