1. Alybag

    Alybag Registered User

    Jul 15, 2017
    5
    Hello, new member here. I have joint enduring POA with my sister for my mum. Can anyone advise on the position of getting a loan from Mum, and the way to go about it? Is it even possible if I am POA? (It's to get a new (to us) car to be able to continue to visit mum in her Res Care).
     
  2. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    As POA you are deemed to act 'in mums best interests' so it would very much depend on her financial state at the time.

    The obvious is 'no'
     
  3. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    8,311
    Yorkshire
    hello Alybag
    this link may help you
    https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs
    an Attorney may not benefit financially from being an Attorney
    I think you need to contact the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG)and ask them, and it looks as though you would at least have to get permission from the Court of Protection (COP)
    contact details at the bottom of this page
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview
    probably best to search around and get a loan from a bank/building society to keep your financial situation separate from your mum's
     
  4. Alybag

    Alybag Registered User

    Jul 15, 2017
    5
    Thank you - will have a look at those links. It is really frustrating as I gave up returning to work in part to be able to care for and now visit Mum, so have no income to be a good candidate for a bank related loan. May speak with her solicitors and see what they advise also.
     
  5. Alybag

    Alybag Registered User

    Jul 15, 2017
    5
    I wonder why her bank suggested it? ....
     
  6. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,791
    Female
    London
  7. nicoise

    nicoise Registered User

    Jun 29, 2010
    1,806
    Possibly because they don't really understand POA and its boundaries either.

    I suspect the solicitors will echo what has been written in other replies on this thread already.
     
  8. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,774
    Salford
    You could only get AA if the mother is self funding and as she's in residential care then you can't get Carers Allowance as far as I know.

    As an LPA you have to act in your mother's best interest so if you did borrow the money I think you'd have to pay interest at least equal to what she would get if the money was invested, have a formal loans agreement and a repayment plan at the very least I would have thought.
    A High Street solicitor may or may not know the answer, I'd use a specialist one if possible AGEUK may be able to advise which local solicitors specialise in issues concerning older people.
    K
     
  9. Alybag

    Alybag Registered User

    Jul 15, 2017
    5
    #9 Alybag, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    Thanks everyone. Good advice. Its a chicken and egg situ, as we don't need a car, but to visit Mum.... who is self funding and in private specialist Care. The proceeds of her house sale (2 years ago) are invested, but realising very little as they need to be accessible to pay the fees. Any loan would have been in writing and paid back monthly anyway, as it has been in the distant past. Will contact Office of Guardian and see whether its possible at all. Its difficult, isn't it? The pre Alz Mum would be distraught to know that we are faced with financial difficulties because of her condition. Such a horrible disease!
     
  10. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,546
    Male
    North Manchester
    Leaning the perennial catchphrase of Professor C.E.M. Joad, 'It all depends what you mean by'

    The COP will have to be involved with any loan.

    If your mother has ~£100k and, allowing for care fees, ~£5k can be loaned to you for 1 year, and you pay interest (best for 1 yr deposit I know of at the moment is 1.85%), and you can prove that, in addition to repayments, you can afford insurance and other running costs, and you can show that use of the car will be primarily (but not exclusively) in your mother's benefit you might have a slim chance of the COP agreeing.

    Additionally it will all have to be set up legally (which may cost), not forgetting that your mother's interest will be included in her income for tax purposes.

    Coming down to reality, there is an argument that reasonable transport costs, depending on circumstances maybe taxis, to visit your mother could be in her best interests. As you have an EPA, rather than a deputyship, you don't have to produce accounts. You have to be accountable for any expenses if anybody starts an investigation as to where the money has gone.
     
  11. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,791
    Female
    London
    Nitram makes a good point. Cars can be expensive, not just the initial purchase, but there is tax to consider, insurance, petrol and repairs. If you only need a car for the sole purpose to visit her, and the public transport or taxi costs are not sky high, then you might be able to reimburse yourself for these from your Mum's money, thus avoiding a complicated loan agreement. But I would ask the OPG first as it depends on how high those costs might be.
     
  12. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    8,311
    Yorkshire
    just thought I'd calculate for myself, to see the costs, and wonder how the OPG would see the situation

    say a taxi fare one way is £10
    visits 2 days a week
    adds up to £2080 a year which it's suggested you may be able to take from your mum as expenses
    (though I thought only travel expenses for Attorney business can be taken, not for social visits)

    so fares soon add up, whoever is paying them

    and there's no flexibility, so in an emergency you have to wait for the taxi etc

    makes buying a cheap car look like a more sensible option - I'm assuming all expenses of running the car would be the owners

    and if the loan is repaid in full with some interest, the mother wouldn't be out of pocket at all

    though, if you
    not sure how the loan is to be repaid
     
  13. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,546
    Male
    North Manchester
    Another option.
    Move the mother to a home nearer to either one, or both, of the attorneys.
     
  14. nmintueo

    nmintueo Registered User

    Jun 28, 2011
    847
    UK
    #14 nmintueo, Jul 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    If you "have no income to be a good candidate for a bank related loan", how would you be able to pay off a loan from your mother?
     
  15. Aisling

    Aisling Registered User

    Dec 5, 2015
    1,807
    Ireland
    POA is a legal document and it carries huge responsibilities. Your Mum has trusted you with this responsibility. I don't think borrowing money from her to buy a car is a good idea. It is your mums money to be used for her.

    Aisling
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.