Live in care and writing a contract

[Lja401]

My husband and I are in the process of sorting out a live in carer for his father. Does anyone have any experience of this? We want to draw up a contract but we want her to be self employed so that we don't need to pay for a pension, NI etc.

Also this lady would like around £630 a week. When looking at carers, the going rate for a private one was around £500. Is she asking for too much?

Many thanks.

 

[Tin]

Well if comparing the two figures you have given, I guess the carer is asking for more to cover her national insurance/tax/personal insurance payments. The £500 figure you have seen could be after deductions with employer paying their share too. Not really sure it is advisable to go down the self employed route though, especially if you are her only employer and providing accommodation.

Did this carer come to you via an introduction agency, if so they should advice you on the kind of contract you need - a service that should be part of their introduction duties for their fee.

Can only say that I know people working in London as residential carers and they are earning between £150 - £200 per day + plus all living expenses and the use of a car.

 

[Lja401]

Thank you Tin.

We were recommended her by a friend who worked alongside her as a carer. She is currently working as a carer for another elderly lady but is looking to move.

Not really sure what to do.

All of this carer business is so confusing. Feel so stressed with all of this dementia stuff. My husband is an only child so everything is down to us and we have a baby too. It's all getting too much :-(

 

[Tin]

Ok so what exactly are her duties at present post? Does she have experience working with dementia and who is employing her? If it is the family of this elderly lady, then is there a possibility you can have a confidential chat with them? You have to get a reference from them, did/do they have a contract and could advice you on the kind you need you don't have to talk salary, it is always a given when people change employment they also look for an increase in pay. In my experience, most privately employed carers are usually earning the same figure they agreed on when employment first started.

I know there are people on this web site that employ private residential carers and if we can keep your request at top of page, they may be along and give you more in depth advice, mine only comes from running a domestic agency over 30 years ago in London and having some experience as a residential carer, but again, a long time ago and since then the employment laws, contract requirements, etc have changed dramatically.

 

[Tin]

P.S

Is a carehome out of the question at the moment?

 

[Pickles53]

https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

You may already have seen this information, but you need to be very careful about making sure that the person you employ (a) would meet the definition of self-employment according to HMRC and (b) if so, he/she has registered as self-employed and is declaring their income properly for tax. If you don't see documentation to prove this, you could be in for a nasty financial shock at a later date if HMRC decides your carer is in fact an employee (holiday pay, employers' NI, pension contributions.....


There have been a couple of legal decisions lately (Uber drivers, various courier companies) where HMRC and courts have concluded that people are in fact employees, whatever their contracts said. HMRC are clamping down on what they see as self-employment being used as a way for employers to avoid paying their fair share.

My husband was self-employed as a part-time freelance engineer after leaving his full-time job with the same company. His daily rate as a self-employed person was significantly more than when employed, to cover all the additional costs he had to pay and to compensate for having no paid holiday, paid sick leave, or other benefits.

 

[Lja401]

I don't think they know she is planning on leaving so sadly speaking to them isn't an option at the moment. Thanks so much for all your advice. Hopefully someone will be able to help and advise on the best route.x

 

[Lja401]

He isn't really bad enough for a care home yet in our opinion and he'd hate to go in one so for the time being we are trying to keep him at home. To be honest though, with all these employment laws, a care home seems like the easy option!

 

[Tin]

I have just googled 'domestic/carer contracts' quite a bit of info came up have you tried this? if not, have a look

 

[Kevinl]

I have just googled 'domestic/carer contracts' quite a bit of info came up have you tried this? if not, have a look

I think in light of the recent Uber case a lot of the advise given will now no longer be correct, if you have one employer you can't be self employed see the link Pickles put up earlier.
Also, let's say the relationship broke down; dad couldn't get on with them, they weren't doing the job properly, were found to be dishonest or whatever, sacking them would make them unemployed could make them homeless either of these could bring the arrangement to the attention of the authorities. They might offer to be self employed then once they've started work demand you make them an employee (as you're legally obliged to) then ask for holiday pay, sick pay, maternity leave...
people probably are doing this and getting away with it but that's what they are doing getting away with it.
K

 

[Tin]

I think in light of the recent Uber case a lot of the advise given will now no longer be correct, if you have one employer you can't be self employed see the link Pickles put up earlier.
Also, let's say the relationship broke down; dad couldn't get on with them, they weren't doing the job properly, were found to be dishonest or whatever, sacking them would make them unemployed could make them homeless either of these could bring the arrangement to the attention of the authorities. They might offer to be self employed then once they've started work demand you make them an employee (as you're legally obliged to) then ask for holiday pay, sick pay, maternity leave...
people probably are doing this and getting away with it but that's what they are doing getting away with it.
K

Well this is what I thought but unable to articulate as well as you. My experience as self employed was that I worked for a number of people, offering my services. Paid all my income tax, national insurance and self employed insurance as well as medical. Tax people always told me that if this situation should ever drop to just one employer/client then I would effectively no longer be self employed. Was also told that a contract really was not worth the paper it was written on. I did point out in my first post on this thread that not really a good idea to seek self employment in this case especially when offering accommodation as well.

 

[Spamar]

My first thought was who is going to be a replacement carer for holidays, night ( if necessary), sick days etc? One person cannot do all this.
I read your comment re him going int a home. I don't think one person has gone into a home wanting to go, but the vast majority soon settle, even get 'better' ( regular food, Medicines, care) for a while.

 

[Bod]

Your better off, going through an agency, they have the problems of tax, NI, holidays etc.
As well as providing 24/7/365 cover.

Bod