Lcc pre care home financial assessment of elderly relative

[walmsleync]

My 86 year old mother has been discharged from hospital and is currently in a care home she apparently gets six weeks free then gets a financial assessment
This will determine how much she pays to stay there
The ugov web site says she will get a phone call for a financial assessment as she has dementia and i have power if attorny i presume they eil speak to me
My question is this can they check the validity of the info i give them for example coukd i say the value of the house plus banj balance but not reveal shares and isas could they find out about this uf i just failed to mention them
Nick

 

[MartinWL]

I am not sure if concealment of assets is actually a criminal offence or not but it would certainly be dishonest and if the local authority found out I am sure there is some action that they could take and you might be liable. This would not be a reccommended route.

 

[walmsleync]

I understand that but it might save some of her funds and i dont think banks etc would talk to lcc about some ones account without their permission its a bit like dr patieyrelations confidential i dont think its fare she should lose everything

 

[thistlejak]

We did not deliberately not inform SS about MIL and FIL 's finances as we didn't know the full extent of their assets, due to not having POA. We did know that they had over the upper limit in one account and that they owned their own home. The council accepted that and billed them the full amount accordingly.
As POA you have to act in your mother's best interest , how would saving some of her money help her as her money is there to pay for anything she might need.
As @MartinWL says it would not be recommended.

 

[Grannie G]

Deprivation of Assets | Age UK

The rules about care home funding and reducing your assets are complicated. Find out more information from Age UK. Read now.

www.ageuk.org.uk

 

[canary]

Hi @walmsleync
When OH had his financial assessment we had to produce a lot of paperwork - bank statements, ISA statements, pension payments etc. This was pre covid, so the financial assessor did a face to face assessment and scrutinised the paperwork while he was here. He spotted a couple of large payments and asked about them (fixing the roof and buying a new car), but he also spotted that I had bought items from a local nursing supplier and asked if OH was incontinent as this would entitle him to an allowance while he was at home. So he seemed very knowledgeable and fair. I was chatting to him and asked him if people ever tried to hide finances and he said that yes, it did happen, but SS has the power to investigate this fraud and could go back many years, If they found hidden finances they could claim back the money that should have been paid.

Im pretty sure that at some stage SS finances will want to see all the paperwork and I really dont think it would be advisable to try and hide any of it. If you try and transfer parts of it to another persons account this is called Deprivation of Assets and SS finances have the power to investigate and claim back money over this too.

 

[northumbrian_k]

If you 'failed to mention' assets of which you are fully aware that would be dishonest and unethical. It would also be a failure of your duty as Attorney and call into question your fitness for that role.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but whether you agree with the way the system works is beside the point. Trying to hide assets from the financial assessor would be the wrong way to go and would almost certainly backfire.

 

[Shedrech]

hello @walmsleync
welcome to DTP
as your mother owns a property, I am assuming she will be self-funding for quite some time ie pay for her care from her own assets with no contribution from the LA, and you as her Attorney will arrange for payments to be made

if this is the case, the LA can make a light touch financial assessment which is pretty much asking whether your mother has assets over £23250 and/or income sufficient to pay her fees (certainly for my dad I simply told them he had a property, savings and very good pension so could pay his own fees easily) ... so they don't need a detailed breakdown of all her assets

this isn't the same as 'hiding' the existence of savings and investments, and those assets must remain in her name and only be used in her best financial interests

if, however, your mother's funds at any point fall below the threshold for a contribution from the LA to kick in, the LA will conduct a full financial assessment ... the LA has the powers to investigate if they consider there is something untoward in the management of your mother's finances and can insist that any monies hidden or transferred to others be paid back towards her care ie they may well refuse to make any contribution to her care fees

no-one 'loses everything' as the lower threshold is £14250 and savings of that amount (or below) are retained by the person

whatever we all think of the rules around payment of care fees, thay are 'fair' in that they apply to everyone .... and don't forget that LA funds don't grow on trees, they come from all of us who pay taxes etc, and it would be 'unfair' to expect us to pay for someone whose assets are being hidden by an Attorney who may be hoping to inherit those assets (otherwise why deliberately fail to disclose assets that are the donor's not the Attorneys)

Paying for dementia care in England

Dementia care isn't free, and you may need to pay for some of the care you or someone you know needs. We help you understand the different ways to pay for care, and the amount you might be expected to pay.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I don't think anyone here on TP thinks the current system is fair, but it is what it is until the government come up with an alternative (which could be better or worse.)

Is it any more fair to withhold info about finances? Fair to who? Your mum, you (as the person who will inherit what is left) or the taxpayer?

 

[Female1952]

From a solicitor's website: "It is a criminal offence to make a false declaration on a Social Services Financial Assessment form".

 

[Jale]

When mum had her financial assessment we had to produce building society book and details of post office account (that was all that she had), they also asked about any premium bonds or shares , no shares but we had to provide proof of premium bonds, We were asked regularly throughout the interview if we were sure that what we had provided was all the money that mum had, We were also asked to provide a list of her general outgoings - hairdressing, chiropody, magazines etc.
Not sure if they do check, but IMO the worst thing you can do is to try and hide things from officials