Lasting Powers of Attorney

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by whileaway, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    #1 whileaway, Jan 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2016
    I am trying to set these up for my parents, using a form bought at a bookstore. But I want to include family friends of theirs, younger people, who are very trustworthy and live nearby. I hate to say this, but I don't altogether trust myself and sibling to handle things properly. We are odd, and I want stable, normal, people to weigh in, both in welfare and financial matters. My brother thinks this is horrible. He says in his experience, the estate is always stolen, and thinks that a friend would manage that. I believe that he does expect some inheritance after their deaths, while am too often depressed to even care. They are 91 and 94, one a carer for the other.
     
  2. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Aug 30, 2013
    1,165
    On the assumption that you are in the UK.
    Lasting Power of Attorney can only be granted by the Office of the Public Guardian, using the forms available from them.
    Nothing else will do.

    Go to the OPG website, all is explained there.
    The forms are reasonably easy to understand, and don't need a solicitor.

    Bod
     
  3. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,320
    Female
    East Kent
    Hello, if your in the UK ,you can use the LPA online forms on this government site , I found them easy to complete.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview
     
  4. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,725
    Female
    London
    To be honest, it doesn't really matter what you or your brother think. The people who have to be in agreement are the donors, ie your parents, as they are granting the power, and the attorneys to be, ie those family friends. It's your parents' choice and if they think they are trustworthy then let them go ahead.

    I agree with the others - forms from a bookstore? They are available online or can be ordered on the phone from the Office of Public Guardian, completely for free. This way you also know you have the latest version.
     
  5. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    #5 Chemmy, Jan 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  6. mrjelly

    mrjelly Registered User

    Jul 23, 2012
    315
    West Sussex
    I am not legally qualified, but I think that if you, your brother and your friends were set up as joint and several attorneys for finance, then whoever wanted could take on the active management while the other(s) just received periodic statements and accounts. You could list a solicitor as a replacement attorney in case you all fell out!

    Ultimately, it's who your parents want to manage their affairs that really counts.
     
  7. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    Are you sure you or your brother should be attorneys if, as you say yourself, "I don't altogether trust myself and my sibling to handle things properly"?

    If I was one of these friends, the legal responsibilities of being part of such a 'team' in charge of your parents affairs would worry me.

    Do your parents definitely still both have capacity to sign the forms? If so, what are their views?
     
  8. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,117
    Male
    North Manchester
    "WHSmith sells a kit for £14.99


    And the government do it for free online
    https://www.lastingpowerofattorney.service.gov.uk/home

    I'm not a betting man but I'll bet that if you write inconsistencies in the WHSmith documents you don't get a pop up in effect saying 'you can't do that'
     
  9. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    I know, but my mother doesn't like to face such things, and I want to have all of the possibilities to set before her. Perhaps I like chaos, as she says, but I wonder if there are an infinite number of permutations for the powers of the various attorneys- this one can make this particular decision on their own, while as this one needs that other one to comply r.e. this other decision. And this one can make all decisions on finance, but needs an accompanying one for care. Is there someone who had been through this that will give me stories as to how it breaks down? It's confusing because I am American, as are they, but they are residents, and I am just a visitor.
     
  10. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    #10 whileaway, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
    Do people actually put the final directive- about receiving care in their last moments, in this statement? How does one know how one will feel at the last? Maybe every hour will be precious, though you will have only a handful left at best. I would like stories about this also. Depression might make one not want to be a burden, and stiff upper lip might tend to make one want to slip away.
     
  11. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    I bought that kit last year for nine, not 15, but then some things might have changed.( WHSmiths.)
    My!- Does the free online version come fool-proof as well?!
    AgeUK is coming to our house in two days to help with/do/ the welfare portion of lasting prs of att. I will try to have the quantity and quality of attorneys figured out by then. I very am bad with paperwork, being disorganized & distractable, to a pathological degree.
     
  12. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    Oh thank you for informing me! I will get a new-improved one- (or should I use the on-line version?)
     
  13. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    Well, thank you, Lin, for telling me to use the on-line form. Since I havent completed the required number of posts, I can't reply to any letters using URLs, but this message goes out to Lin and Bob
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,117
    Male
    North Manchester
    The documents for care and finance are separate which means that there are two sets of attorneys.

    There can be multiple attorneys.

    Multiple attorneys can act in three ways
    • Jointly
    • Jointly and severally
    • Jointly for some actions and jointly and severally for others.

    Jointly
    All attorneys must always act together.
    Can be difficult to achieve in practise, apart from the logistics not all organisation have the facility for multiple signatures on documents.
    If one attorney cannot act, deceased, bankrupt (finance only), lacks capacity, revokes the power, all attorneys cannot act and the power lapses.

    Jointly and severally
    All attorneys can act jointly or independently.

    Jointly for some actions and jointly and severally for others.
    The type of power for specified action is defined, it can be jointly and severally except for defined actions when it is jointly.

    You can also appoint replacement attorneys to take over if the original ones cannot act. This is not away out of not all original joint attorneys being able to act.

    My advice would be to keep it simple, everything joint and several.
    If you start putting various restrictive clauses in you could end up with an unworkable situation or have inadvertently caused an unforeseen legal problem, the OPG my even reject the application, you should get legal advice.
     
  15. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    Well, my father who handled all the business and was very good at it, has had a creeping dementia, and my mother is worse at business than I am.( They have had 2 house insurance policies, identical coverage, different insurers, for years, for example.)
    Your post implies that all the attorneys will receive detailed statements regarding finance and/or/welfare. What kind of statements? Bank statements? I haven't thought it through. The AgeUK lady will explain half of this anyway.
     
  16. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    Thank you. But then you say the jointly might be a spanner in the works. Oh I hate to get a solicitor, but maybe it is warranted.
     
  17. Risa

    Risa Registered User

    Apr 13, 2015
    483
    Essex
    You don't have to have the same attorneys for the 2 LPA forms as they are stand alone documents. Being next of kin, I assume you and your brother would wish to be the Health & Welfare attorneys and the family friends be attorneys for the Property & Finance LPA? The forms are easy to complete on-line, there is plenty of guidance on the forms and there is also a telephone contact number in case you have a query. I would say they are much more fool-proof than completing a paper copy as depending on what sections you complete, the on-line form automatically completes corresponding sections for you so cuts down on the work involved :)

    I would encourage you to complete the H&W LPA as in the UK, many doctors are unwilling to divulge patient information even to the next of kin without this being in place. With you being located in another country, this could be a major issue.
     
  18. whileaway

    whileaway Registered User

    Dec 11, 2015
    129
    Thank you, dear. I am content. Everyone has been most helpful, and you have eased my mind at the last.
     
  19. arielsmelody

    arielsmelody Registered User

    Jul 16, 2015
    514
    The persons holding power of attorney won't automatically receive anything at all - it's pretty much the other way round, if you want to be able to operate eg a bank account on the other person's behalf, you have to take the documents to the bank and get them to register you as having power of attorney for that account (NB don't send the original documents off, you will probably need certified copies from a solicitor that can be sent away if the bank insists).
     
  20. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,117
    Male
    North Manchester
    "But then you say the jointly might be a spanner in the works."

    It can certainly add complication.

    If any attorney cannot act the power ceases to exist which means that if the donor has lost capacity a new LPA cannot be made and a COP deputy will have to be applied for, these are rarely granted for health and welfare.

    The fact that documents have to be signed by all attorneys can cause problems especially if the documents have to be posted around various attorneys. Some financial institutions do not have the room for multiple signatures on forms that actually apply to a single person.

    With health and welfare it may be difficult to contact all joint attorneys in an emergency situation.

    The real question to ask is why did the donor select attorneys that they did not trust to work together acting severally.
     

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